[Assam] assam Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47
muktikam phukan
muktikamp at yahoo.co.in
Fri Dec 30 06:10:35 EST 2005
Agreed. We need to be bold enough to say x is x or y is y even when we r working outside the state. We should be assertive.
MP
sumita sarma <sumita_sarma at rediffmail.com> wrote:
With all the logic behind Assam and Assamese, I only want to know why we Assamese have become a minority in our own state (Assam).
Is it because we are not assertive enough and lag behind other Indian communities in any way?
We Assamese have produced sons and daughters who have reached the very top in all spheres of life, but still non-Assamese do not seem to know much about them.
I have been serving outside Assam (within India) for more than 10 years now and have interacted closely with almost all communities. One common thing is that all these people tend to equate Assam with Bengalis, why ? Why they feel that Assamese language is a mixture of Bengali and Oriya ? Why they feel that only the ethnic tribes are the real Assamese and not people like me who has a 'sharma' for a title. Why they feel that we are migrated people from bihar, UP etc ? Why can't they accept that Assamese people are from Assam , just like Tamilians are from Tamil Nadu ?
Sometimes I feel angry with the way people refer to Assam - they say we are not very competent that's why trying to agitate and raise voices against the hindi speaking people ! My bosses and colleagues almost ragged me after that incident where some hindi speaking people werent allowed to take a test for the railways in Assam !
Feel frustrated at times. No matter how proudly you say you are an Assamese and wear a mekhela chaddar, people will still have so many questions, which only prove how bad they are in geography and social studies !
One thing is for sure that we Assamese should be more united and try to help each other more, like the Bengalis. United we should stand to make us Assamese and to make Assa a shining state on the
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 assam-request at assamnet.org wrote :
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. jaipurschool at yahoo.com has sent you a page.
> (jaipurschool at yahoo.com)
> 2. Re: [WaterWatch] Why does river Brahmaputra remain untamed?
> (mc mahant)
> 3. Re: Assam is for Assamese (Chan Mahanta)
> 4. Re: Assam is for Assamese (Chan Mahanta)
> 5. Re: Assam is for Assamese (Barua25)
> 6. Arabic then! AllahTala's language will be useful in Zannat
> too!! (Bartta Bistar)
> 7. AFSPA by white colonialist, BROWN masters bizarre use in a
> democracy realisation? (Bartta Bistar)
> 8. Super. BUT, a Green Army put under regular Army control IS
> guised militarization (Bartta Bistar)
> 9. Super. BUT, a Green Army put under regular Army control IS
> guised militarization (Bartta Bistar)
> 10. Bangla Rivers --our future gateway to the world (mc mahant)
> 11. Urdu also can be the trozan horse to fulfil the dream ofa
> third Pakistan. (Bartta Bistar)
> 12. Re: Liberal vs. illiberal democracy (Chan Mahanta)
> 13. Re: Assam is for Assamese (Chan Mahanta)
> 14. Re: Liberal vs. illiberal democracy (mc mahant)
> 15. Assam is for Assamese - another take (Ram Sarangapani)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:30:55 -0500 (EST)
> From: jaipurschool at yahoo.com
>Subject: [Assam] jaipurschool at yahoo.com has sent you a page.
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <0IS600B03MRJ9T at gseweb.harvard.edu>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
>
>Would be interesting to anyone dealing with children.
>
>Umesh
>
>The page below was sent on Tuesday December 27, 2005 at 7:30 pm ET from jaipurschool at yahoo.com.
>
>To visit this page, click on the link below or copy and paste it into your browser.
>
>http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/2005/1221_shonkoff.html
>
>
>HGSE News is the news source for the Harvard Graduate School of Education; visit HGSE News at http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/
>
>To subscribe to receive updates of news and research from HGSE, visit our subscription page at http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/subscribe.html
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 06:44:12 +0530
> From: "mc mahant" <mikemahant at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] [WaterWatch] Why does river Brahmaputra remain
> untamed?
>To: dilipdeka at yahoo.com
>Cc: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY13-F9C5810890BF7038EF6E0CDA360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: http://assamnet.org/pipermail/assam_assamnet.org/attachments/20051228/39a6e9fa/attachment-0001.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:59:24 -0600
> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese
>To: "Rajen Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>, <assam at assamnet.org>
>Message-ID: <a06100501bfd7af2eb7e4@[192.168.1.100]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>At 5:44 PM -0600 12/27/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
> > >I copied Sumanta in to make you squirm a little, because you
> >dragged him into these for no reason.
> >
> >Then why you did not drag Tarun Gogoi and Arabinda Rajkhowa also?????
>
>
>*** I don't know Tarun Gogoi. Arabinda Rajkhowa is involved in these
>debates, even though only indirectly.
>And finally, I reserve the right to copy whomever I choose to. I
>don't need Rajen Barua's approval for that and I owe him no
>explanation for it.
>
>How is that for an answer :-)?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >RB
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>Chan Mahanta
> >To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua ;
> ><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
> >Cc: <mailto:sumantachaliha at sify.com>sumantachaliha at sify.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese
> >
> >Was this the 'attack' Rajen? You got me worried sick for nothing :-).
> >
> >
> >I copied Sumanta in to make you squirm a little, because you dragged
> >him into these for no reason. But rest easy, it is highly unlikely
> >he will exercise his powers as the powerful editor of Dainik Asom to
> >sully your reputation. Actually time to time you to do a pretty darn
> >good job of it all by yourself :-).
> >
> >I don't have a clue about what Sumanta's views are on these issues
> >that we debate, and go to war over. It was YOU who made the charges
> >about Sumanta's views and your disagreements over them, and thus
> >lumped them together with other views that you do not agree with,
> >like mine, mm's, Tarun Gogoi's, Mamoni Goswami's, Arabinda
> >Rajkhowa's etc. etc. I was surprised by your including Sumanta in
> >this bunch of people whom you obviously find so highly disagreeable.
> >
> >
> >> >It is for the netters to judge if my assessment about the
> >>Mahantas is correct when I say the following. But this is the
> >>impression I get from your various postings in the net:
> >>
> > >That the Mahantas voice for Communism in future Assam. They
> >express hatred against India. >They prophecy Doom and Gloom for
> >India.
> >
> >
> >*** What can I say? You have an unique way of looking at things. But
> >if it helps
> >your cause, whatever it might be, AMEN Brother! You hold on to those
> >perceptions ,opinions and conclusions. Far be it for me than to
> >deprive you of your birth-rights.
> >And I am sure Netters will exercise their own reasoning skills to
> >come to their own conclusions. But if they share theirs with you to
> >express solidarity with your assessments, do let us know, OK? Don't
> >hide that from us now.
> >
> >But one thing you might want to know: It is not going to hurt my
> >feelings, or cause me any discomfiture. Because I say what I say
> >quite deliberately, usually with consideration for its ramifications.
> >
> >
> >
> >> >But before I try to show the short coming of your statement, I
> >>want you to note and confirm again that the following is your own
> >>statement which you believe, and not of Sumanta Chaliha or somebody
> >>else and that you are simply trying to tabulate to spice up
> >>the arguments for the sake of arguments.
> >>
> >
> >
> >"Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their
> >homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos,
> >Dimasas, Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc.Assam is NOT the homeland for
> >Biharis, not for Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests
> >there. And become Assamese in time thru a process of assimilation.
> >But they cannot REMAIN itinerant Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis
> >but claim to be Assamese at the same time. That is the difference" -
> >Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> >
> >
> >*** I am NOT in the habit of blaming somebody else for what I write
> >Rajen. The Devil does NOT make me do it. Did I create an impression
> >otherwise? Unlike YOU, I did not drag someone into these debates out
> >of the blue. I asked what Sumanta';s sins were to lump him with the
> >rest of the despicable lot you listed. You tried to back-pedal out
> >of it, but I wouldn't let you ( the 'bihguti' I am :-)). You
> >asserted that Sumanta held 'narrow nationalistic views'. I asked you
> >what they were. You told us. So I asked you WHY you think of those
> >as outrageous - why it is so bad that Sumanta should think Assam is
> >for the Assamese? Instead of explaining, like you usually AVOID
> >doing, you levelled all the charges above against the Mahantas of
> >Assam Net.
> >
> >End of story. You demonstrated, once again, your propensity for
> >indulging in 'bere-saale' kwbwa' exercises. But hey, I know it takes
> >all kinds :-).
> >
> >
> >
> > >Because, this line of thinking has serious problems and
> >shortcoming for Assam. and I totally donot agree with >the above
> >view. If you really believe the above, I see that there is a vast
> >difference between the future Assam as envisioned by the Mahantas
> >and by me.
> >
> >*** You sure could have fooled me :-). I would like to ask you to
> >explain WHY, but I know you won't. So I will let it go at that. But
> >if you want to surprise the heck out of me and others in the net,
> >you may want to explain WHY what I wrote seems so outrageous to
> >your concept of Assam. That might be enlightening.
> >
> >
> >Take care.
> >
> >c
> >
> >PS: I copied Sumanta in on this one last time, just so he knows how
> >the 'bhawna' ended :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 2:51 PM -0600 12/27/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
> >
> >>First I think you are copying these to Sumanta Chaliha just to add
> >>some spice into our debate or just to expose Rajen Barua in front
> >>of a powerful Editor of Doinik Asom who will teach Rajen Barua a
> >>lesson.
> >>
> >Please go ahead.
> >
> >
> >
> >However, I did not equate Sumanta with the Mahantas (in spite of
> >your blood relation). I donot think Sumanta has the same views as
> >yours. His views are different.
> >
> >What I don't understand is why you are trying to act as Sumanta
> >Chaliha's attorney or spokesperson if you don't share the same view
> >with his? Again just to throw a monkey wrench into my arguments just
> >for the sake of it?
> >
> >
> >
> >It is for the netters to judge if my assessment about the Mahantas
> >is correct when I say the following. But this is the impression I
> >get from your various postings in the net:
> >
> >That the Mahantas voice for Communism in future Assam. They express
> >hatred against India. They prophecy Doom and Gloom for India.
> >
> >
> >
> >(Now please don't try to drag Sumanta Chaliha into the scene here.
> >He does not do any of these. His views are quite different, I intend
> >to coolly discuss with him and continue our unfinished discussion
> >that we had in Assam when I visited last. So I would appreciate if
> >you don't try to misinterpret my comments and try to create
> >confusion in our understanding. )
> >
> >
> >
> >But before I try to show the short coming of your statement, I want
> >you to note and confirm again that the following is your own
> >statement which you believe, and not of Sumanta Chaliha or somebody
> >else and that you are simply trying to tabulate to spice up
> >the arguments for the sake of arguments.
> >
> >
> >
> >"Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their
> >homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos,
> >Dimasas, Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc.Assam is NOT the homeland for
> >Biharis, not for Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests
> >there. And become Assamese in time thru a process of assimilation.
> >But they cannot REMAIN itinerant Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis
> >but claim to be Assamese at the same time. That is the difference" -
> >Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> >
> >Because, this line of thinking has serious problems and shortcoming
> >for Assam. and I totally donot agree with the above view.
> >
> >
> >
> >If you really believe the above, I see that there is a vast
> >difference between the future Assam as envisioned by the Mahantas
> >and by me.
> >
> >
> >
> >RB
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >
> >From: <mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>Chan Mahanta
> >
> >To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua ;
> ><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
> >
> >Cc: <mailto:sumantachaliha at sify.com>sumantachaliha at sify.com
> >
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:16 PM
> >
> >Subject: Re: [Assam] Who is Assam For?
> >
> >
> >It was Rajen Barua who brought Sumanta Chaliha into these
> >discussions and equted them with :
> >
> >
> >
> >Communism, as proposed by the Mahantas, is definitely not the solution.
> >
> >Hatred of India, as proposed by the Mahnats, is not the solution.
> >
> >Doom for India, as proposed by the Mahantas, is not the solution.
> >
> >
> >
> >I don't have to be Sumanta Chaliha's spokesperson to ask what you
> >had in mind. And you should be able to explain it, since you
> >authored it.
> >
> >
> >
> >It does not take a genius to figure out why. But I wanted to have
> >YOU say so. Obviously my challenge causes you a lot of discomfiture.
> >But that is NOT MY doing. You brought it upon yourself.
> >
> >
> > >It does not because what you tried to interperet your statement in
> >the following, you are actaullay getting nto a >dead end.
> >
> >
> >*** Yeah? That is because my comment was not designed to be left as
> >an open ended one.
> >
> >
> > >But before I show you the fallacy of your statement,
> >
> >
> >*** I appreciate your magnanimity here. But go right ahead and
> >'attack' me. Isn't that what I am here for? The suspense is killing
> >me though :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:23:55 -0600
> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese
>To: "Rajen Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>, <assam at assamnet.org>
>Message-ID: <a06100502bfd7b019eee5@[192.168.1.100]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >Am I saying anything which you did not say in the net here?
>
>
>*** Heh, heh---is the Pope Catholic?
>
> >Your brother is plainly talking about Communism. In fact he is
> >lamenting that Assam is 90 years late for Lenin?
>
>*** What do you know about communism? From all indication it is even
>less than democracy. At any event even if you did know something
>about communism, and even if my brother is advocating communism for
>Assam, what does that have to do with MY views?
>
> >He is plainly talking about taking away all lands from people of
> >Assam, all the Mandarins from administration.
>
>*** If that is your yardstick for labeling it communism, what is your
>view about Israel's policies where the land belongs to the state and
>Kibbutzes are communal living arrangements? Is it communism?
>
>Yes, Assam if and when becomes free to re-order its governance, ought
>to completely disband the desi-system of Babudom and reorganize the
>state's executive branch. Do you have a problem with that? And if so,
>is it because it looks like communism to you?
>
>
> >Am I saying something which you guys want to deny now?
>
>*** I won't dignify that with an answer.
>
> >You are both flatly prophesying that Indian economy will collapse at
> >any time now.
>
>*** I did? You must be also hearing things. But even if it does not, it means
>nothing for Assam. India might be booming with little in it for Assam.
>
>
> >And whatever you may say, your writings do not express any love for India.
>
>*** Is it some kind of a requirement that I have to blindly express
>love for a dysfunctional state that has done wrong by my people? You
>may be programmed for that, but not me. I exercise my reasoning
>abilities to decide if I like something and love something.
>
> >Or am I creating my own wrong perceptions, opinions and conclusions?
>
>*** Take a wild guess.
>
> >Or you are trying wriggle out with another Chandan Slip?
>
>*** You should talk about evading questions.
>
>
> >Whether you like it or not, the impression I am getting for future
> >Assam under the Mahantas
>
>*** First of all, you need to realize that Chandan Mahanta left India
>and Assam 35 years back, for good. I have no desire to RULE Assam.
>Nor do I have any desire to TELL Assam how to rule itself, be it
>under India, or as an independent nation, unlike for exan mple you.
>But I do support its sovereignty aspirations.
>
>
> >Communist country without any right to personal land (and property?) ,
>
>*** If it were for me, I will let Assam decide that. And I will not
>attempt to impose the kind of half-baked notions of democracy and
>freedom that you wave around.
>
> > which will have its own Oxomia Toka,
>
>*** An independent Assam must have its own currency and monetary
>system. Oxomiya toka is as good a name for it as any.
>
> >and which will be an Assam for the Assamese only.
>
>*** Yes indeed. The idea of an independent Assam is rooted in the
>notion that it would be a homeland for the Assamese, and not of
>non-Assamese, itinerant shopkeepers, laborers, bureaucrats or
>what-have-you.
>
>You have a problem with that idea?
>
>
>*******************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>At 6:14 PM -0600 12/27/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
> > >That the Mahantas voice for Communism in future Assam. They
> >express hatred against India. >They prophecy Doom and Gloom for
> >India.
> >
> >*** What can I say? You have an unique way of looking at things. But
> >if it helps
> >your cause, whatever it might be, AMEN Brother! You hold on to those
> >perceptions ,opinions and conclusions. Far be it for me than to
> >deprive you of your birth-rights.
> >
> >Am I saying anything which you did not say in the net here?
> >Your brother is plainly talking about Communism. In fact he is
> >lamenting that Assam is 90 years late for Lenin?
> >He is plainly talking about taking away all lands from people of
> >Assam, all the Mandarins from administration.
> >Am I saying something which you guys want to deny now?
> >You are both flatly prophesying that Indian economy will collapse at
> >any time now.
> >And whatever you may say, your writings do not express any love for India.
> >Or am I creating my own wrong perceptions, opinions and conclusions?
> >Or you are trying wriggle out with another Chandan Slip?
> >
> >Whether you like it or not, the impression I am getting for future
> >Assam under the Mahantas is a Communist country without any right to
> >personal land (and property?) , which will have its own Oxomia Toka,
> >and which will be an Assam for the Assamese only.
> >
> >Please correct me if I am again wrong in my perception from your postings.
> >RB
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>Chan Mahanta
> >To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua ;
> ><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
> >Cc: <mailto:sumantachaliha at sify.com>sumantachaliha at sify.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese
> >
> >Was this the 'attack' Rajen? You got me worried sick for nothing :-).
> >
> >
> >I copied Sumanta in to make you squirm a little, because you dragged
> >him into these for no reason. But rest easy, it is highly unlikely
> >he will exercise his powers as the powerful editor of Dainik Asom to
> >sully your reputation. Actually time to time you to do a pretty darn
> >good job of it all by yourself :-).
> >
> >I don't have a clue about what Sumanta's views are on these issues
> >that we debate, and go to war over. It was YOU who made the charges
> >about Sumanta's views and your disagreements over them, and thus
> >lumped them together with other views that you do not agree with,
> >like mine, mm's, Tarun Gogoi's, Mamoni Goswami's, Arabinda
> >Rajkhowa's etc. etc. I was surprised by your including Sumanta in
> >this bunch of people whom you obviously find so highly disagreeable.
> >
> >
> >> >It is for the netters to judge if my assessment about the
> >>Mahantas is correct when I say the following. But this is the
> >>impression I get from your various postings in the net:
> >>
> > >That the Mahantas voice for Communism in future Assam. They
> >express hatred against India. >They prophecy Doom and Gloom for
> >India.
> >
> >
> >*** What can I say? You have an unique way of looking at things. But
> >if it helps
> >your cause, whatever it might be, AMEN Brother! You hold on to those
> >perceptions ,opinions and conclusions. Far be it for me than to
> >deprive you of your birth-rights.
> >And I am sure Netters will exercise their own reasoning skills to
> >come to their own conclusions. But if they share theirs with you to
> >express solidarity with your assessments, do let us know, OK? Don't
> >hide that from us now.
> >
> >But one thing you might want to know: It is not going to hurt my
> >feelings, or cause me any discomfiture. Because I say what I say
> >quite deliberately, usually with consideration for its ramifications.
> >
> >
> >
> >> >But before I try to show the short coming of your statement, I
> >>want you to note and confirm again that the following is your own
> >>statement which you believe, and not of Sumanta Chaliha or somebody
> >>else and that you are simply trying to tabulate to spice up
> >>the arguments for the sake of arguments.
> >>
> >
> >
> >"Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their
> >homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos,
> >Dimasas, Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc.Assam is NOT the homeland for
> >Biharis, not for Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests
> >there. And become Assamese in time thru a process of assimilation.
> >But they cannot REMAIN itinerant Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis
> >but claim to be Assamese at the same time. That is the difference" -
> >Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> >
> >
> >*** I am NOT in the habit of blaming somebody else for what I write
> >Rajen. The Devil does NOT make me do it. Did I create an impression
> >otherwise? Unlike YOU, I did not drag someone into these debates out
> >of the blue. I asked what Sumanta';s sins were to lump him with the
> >rest of the despicable lot you listed. You tried to back-pedal out
> >of it, but I wouldn't let you ( the 'bihguti' I am :-)). You
> >asserted that Sumanta held 'narrow nationalistic views'. I asked you
> >what they were. You told us. So I asked you WHY you think of those
> >as outrageous - why it is so bad that Sumanta should think Assam is
> >for the Assamese? Instead of explaining, like you usually AVOID
> >doing, you levelled all the charges above against the Mahantas of
> >Assam Net.
> >
> >End of story. You demonstrated, once again, your propensity for
> >indulging in 'bere-saale' kwbwa' exercises. But hey, I know it takes
> >all kinds :-).
> >
> >
> >
> > >Because, this line of thinking has serious problems and
> >shortcoming for Assam. and I totally donot agree with >the above
> >view. If you really believe the above, I see that there is a vast
> >difference between the future Assam as envisioned by the Mahantas
> >and by me.
> >
> >*** You sure could have fooled me :-). I would like to ask you to
> >explain WHY, but I know you won't. So I will let it go at that. But
> >if you want to surprise the heck out of me and others in the net,
> >you may want to explain WHY what I wrote seems so outrageous to
> >your concept of Assam. That might be enlightening.
> >
> >
> >Take care.
> >
> >c
> >
> >PS: I copied Sumanta in on this one last time, just so he knows how
> >the 'bhawna' ended :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 2:51 PM -0600 12/27/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
> >
> >>First I think you are copying these to Sumanta Chaliha just to add
> >>some spice into our debate or just to expose Rajen Barua in front
> >>of a powerful Editor of Doinik Asom who will teach Rajen Barua a
> >>lesson.
> >>
> >Please go ahead.
> >
> >
> >
> >However, I did not equate Sumanta with the Mahantas (in spite of
> >your blood relation). I donot think Sumanta has the same views as
> >yours. His views are different.
> >
> >What I don't understand is why you are trying to act as Sumanta
> >Chaliha's attorney or spokesperson if you don't share the same view
> >with his? Again just to throw a monkey wrench into my arguments just
> >for the sake of it?
> >
> >
> >
> >It is for the netters to judge if my assessment about the Mahantas
> >is correct when I say the following. But this is the impression I
> >get from your various postings in the net:
> >
> >That the Mahantas voice for Communism in future Assam. They express
> >hatred against India. They prophecy Doom and Gloom for India.
> >
> >
> >
> >(Now please don't try to drag Sumanta Chaliha into the scene here.
> >He does not do any of these. His views are quite different, I intend
> >to coolly discuss with him and continue our unfinished discussion
> >that we had in Assam when I visited last. So I would appreciate if
> >you don't try to misinterpret my comments and try to create
> >confusion in our understanding. )
> >
> >
> >
> >But before I try to show the short coming of your statement, I want
> >you to note and confirm again that the following is your own
> >statement which you believe, and not of Sumanta Chaliha or somebody
> >else and that you are simply trying to tabulate to spice up
> >the arguments for the sake of arguments.
> >
> >
> >
> >"Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their
> >homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos,
> >Dimasas, Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc.Assam is NOT the homeland for
> >Biharis, not for Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests
> >there. And become Assamese in time thru a process of assimilation.
> >But they cannot REMAIN itinerant Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis
> >but claim to be Assamese at the same time. That is the difference" -
> >Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> >
> >Because, this line of thinking has serious problems and shortcoming
> >for Assam. and I totally donot agree with the above view.
> >
> >
> >
> >If you really believe the above, I see that there is a vast
> >difference between the future Assam as envisioned by the Mahantas
> >and by me.
> >
> >
> >
> >RB
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >
> >From: <mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>Chan Mahanta
> >
> >To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua ;
> ><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
> >
> >Cc: <mailto:sumantachaliha at sify.com>sumantachaliha at sify.com
> >
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:16 PM
> >
> >Subject: Re: [Assam] Who is Assam For?
> >
> >
> >It was Rajen Barua who brought Sumanta Chaliha into these
> >discussions and equted them with :
> >
> >
> >
> >Communism, as proposed by the Mahantas, is definitely not the solution.
> >
> >Hatred of India, as proposed by the Mahnats, is not the solution.
> >
> >Doom for India, as proposed by the Mahantas, is not the solution.
> >
> >
> >
> >I don't have to be Sumanta Chaliha's spokesperson to ask what you
> >had in mind. And you should be able to explain it, since you
> >authored it.
> >
> >
> >
> >It does not take a genius to figure out why. But I wanted to have
> >YOU say so. Obviously my challenge causes you a lot of discomfiture.
> >But that is NOT MY doing. You brought it upon yourself.
> >
> >
> > >It does not because what you tried to interperet your statement in
> >the following, you are actaullay getting nto a >dead end.
> >
> >
> >*** Yeah? That is because my comment was not designed to be left as
> >an open ended one.
> >
> >
> > >But before I show you the fallacy of your statement,
> >
> >
> >*** I appreciate your magnanimity here. But go right ahead and
> >'attack' me. Isn't that what I am here for? The suspense is killing
> >me though :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:44:01 -0600
> From: "Barua25" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese
>To: <assam at assamnet.org>
>Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV1E12870D943333E06A89AAD360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese"Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos, Dimasas, Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc. Assam is NOT the homeland for Biharis, not for Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests there. And become Assamese in time thru a process of assimilation. But they cannot REMAIN itinerant Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis but claim to be Assamese at the same time. That is the difference" - Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> Chandan:
> No I have not asked you the questions yet. Many questions arise out of your above statement; Following are some.
> 1) What exactly the slogan : Assam IS for Assamese mean? What is the definition of an Assamese.
> Mr Dhiren Bezbarooah told me this time that they had been asked at one time to leave Assam as some people donot consider them to be Assamese. Where do you think this Assam for Assamese will end?
> 2) Does Assam for Assamese mean that only Assamese language will be considered as the national language of Assam? What about other languages?
> 3) You mentioned about being assimilated into Assamese to be an Assamese. With what yardstick, you measure the process of 'assimilation"? Ability to speak Assamese and dance Bihu Dance? Does it mean those who have not assimilated into Assamese by your standard will not get equal right in Assam? Will they have voting right? Will they be taxed more than an Assamese?
> 4) Will the children of Assamese parents living outside Assam be considered as Assamese although they donot know how to speak Assamese and dance Bihu dance (that is if that is the yardstick)?
> 5) Some ethnic groups like the Bodos have not assimilated into the Assamese, and never intend to and most of them actually claim not to be considered as Assamese at all but to be considered as Bodos and are claiming for separate Bodoland. Where they will fit in your scheme for Assam for Assamese? What about the Dimasas, Mising and others? What if they donot want to be considered as Assamese? Do they have any freedom in choice, or is ir a leave it or take it policy by force?
> 6) You have not shown the Bengalis in Assam who have been living in Assam for ages and who love Assam but who want to remain as Bengalis, maintaining their separate culture, where they will fit? Can they claim Assam as their homeland? Will they be second-class citizens in Assam?
> 7) Same thing goes for Nepalis, Marwaris, Biharis, Bangladeshi and others who have been living in Assam for aghes, have landed property in Assam but donot want to assimilate and claim as Assamese, what will be their fate? Why you want them to assimilate into Assamese? Again what is the crieria of assimilation? Speaking Assamese and dancing Bihu dance?
> 8) Don't you think your policy will take away the basic freedom of an Indian to live anywhere freely in any state in India? Today an Assamese can live in Gujarat, buy property, and remain as Assamese. Don't you think your policy will take away this basic freedom?
> 9) Don't you think your above policy will farther divide the people of Assam? Is this not the reason why we lost the Khasis, the Nagas, the Lusais, the Garos and others because of Assamese hegemony among them.
> 10) Do you find such policy in any country? Texas for Texans only etc? Thus is it not against basic individual freedom of people?
>
> Anyhow this is flatly not my Assam. Later I will tell you what policy will be in force in my Assam.
>
> RB
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>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:52:30 +0000
> From: "Bartta Bistar" <barttabistar at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] Arabic then! AllahTala's language will be useful in
> Zannat too!!
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY14-F515DB6D71289996AE0237C0360 at phx.gbl>
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>
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>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 08:17:48 +0000
> From: "Bartta Bistar" <barttabistar at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] AFSPA by white colonialist, BROWN masters bizarre use
> in a democracy realisation?
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY14-F2479CE8279D1A918C52816C0360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 11:27:08 +0000
> From: "Bartta Bistar" <barttabistar at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] Super. BUT, a Green Army put under regular Army
> control IS guised militarization
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY14-F6E1DC77F2AB13D0F406D6C0360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:37:07 +0000
> From: "Bartta Bistar" <barttabistar at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] Super. BUT, a Green Army put under regular Army
> control IS guised militarization
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY14-F24D8648360F296E27FB9EBC0360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:49:23 +0530
> From: "mc mahant" <mikemahant at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] Bangla Rivers --our future gateway to the world
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY13-F2170CBE27E8490BB6CD04BDA360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>
>Message: 11
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:06:11 +0000
> From: "Bartta Bistar" <barttabistar at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] Urdu also can be the trozan horse to fulfil the dream
> ofa third Pakistan.
>To: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY14-F2459B041904FACF14622C5C0360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:17:36 -0600
> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Liberal vs. illiberal democracy
>To: Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>, ASSAMNET
> <assam at assamnet.org>
>Message-ID: <a06100501bfd85607d33f@[192.168.1.100]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Thanks for sharing the article. While it is a
>good one, I did not find anything either
>revealing or new. It is old hat for all but the
>'adha-khunda'
>( half-baked) chanters of the democracy mantra,
>as is often seen in this forum from certain
>quarters.
>
>Farid Zakaria's quote:
>
>"--Indeed, Zakaria convincingly argues that --
>under certain temporary circumstances -- a
>reformist autocracy may be preferable to an
>illiberal democracy.",
>
>-- even though presented as a landmark
>observation, is neither new nor ground-breaking.
>It has been a very well accepted reality for
>quite a while, something that was not lost on
>some of us who reminded netters that is exactly
>what will be required for a period of transition
>to reform Assam governance from the ashes of a
>dysfunctional desi-system, mistakenly touted as a
>democracy by some people, drawing shrill
>outpourings of derision and charges of delusion
>of dictatorship and autocracy from the
>simple-minded.
>
>
>The definition of democracy is the key factor in
>these discussions. The deeply flawed notion that
>elections are the be-all and end-all of democracy
>or the notion that majority will thus asserted is
>somehow sacred or even barely acceptable; widely
>prevalent among even the best of Indians and
>NRIs/NRAs alike ; is a singular impediment to
>generating broad support for meaningful reforms
>in Indian governance, which could have prevented
>the ever increasing seditious movements and
>insurgencies seeking to assert minority rights
>and aspirations.
>
>It is exactly for that reason I see no
>alternative for Assam than to wrest the controls
>of its governance from the hands of Delhi, and
>set up its own
>incorporating the checks and balances of an
>enlightened 'liberal' democracy, with functioning
>institutions of state, unlike those of India's
>where they exist only on paper and are at best
>shams. This alone could prevent the tendency to
>break into ever smaller, but unsustainable, units
>of government or states, guaranteeing a fair
>shake for all the stakeholders in a highly
>multitudinous society such as Assam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 3:07 PM -0800 12/27/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
> >Beware, I am throwing some meat into the cage!
> >The article makes interesting reading, whether
> >you agree with the author or not. I had saved it
> >in my "to read" folder.
> >Dilip
> >
> >
> >Liberal vs. illiberal democracy
> >
> >by <>Massimo Pigliucci May 10, 04
> >
> >Plato famously did not like democracy. He saw
> >the death of his mentor, Socrates, decided by an
> >ignorant and fearful mob of Athenians, as the
> >logical consequence of giving power to the
> >masses. While Plato?s solution to the problem,
> >his utopia of a state guided by philosophers
> >(surprise, surprise) depicted in the Republic
> >obviously wouldn?t cut it neither in theory nor
> >in practice, he had a point.
> >
> >Churchill once quipped that democracy is the
> >worst form of government, except for all the
> >others, which reflects the attitude of most in
> >the modern Western world. And yet, Churchill,
> >unlike Plato, failed to define what kind of
> >democracy he was referring to. Roughly speaking,
> >there are two fundamentally distinct kinds of
> >democratic government: the simple rule of
> >majority, despised by Plato but simplistically
> >endorsed by many in the United States; and a
> >constitutional democracy, in which the decisions
> >of the majority of the moment are constrained by
> >a set of rules aimed chiefly at protecting the
> >rights of minorities, including freedom of
> >speech and action.
> >
> >Author Fareed Zakaria, in his lucidly written
> >The Future of Freedom, labels the two kinds
> >respectively ?illiberal? and ?liberal?
> >democracy. By ?liberal? Zakaria doesn?t mean
> >left-leaning (as he is quick to point out), but
> >rather constructed so to insure an open society,
> >encouraging a healthy liberal exchange of ideas
> >among its citizens, and tolerant of a wide
> >(though obviously not boundless) spectrum of
> >beliefs and practices.
> >
> >This distinction is crucial, and yet it is
> >rarely drawn by our politicians, who use the
> >word ?democracy? as synonymous with
> >unquestionable good, despite plenty of evidence
> >to the contrary. Indeed, Zakaria convincingly
> >argues that -- under certain temporary
> >circumstances -- a reformist autocracy may be
> >preferable to an illiberal democracy. He points
> >out that the most successful instances of
> >transition to democracy in the world throughout
> >the 20th century have developed gradually,
> >beginning with relatively enlightened autocratic
> >leaders who saw the eventual inevitability of
> >change. Soviet Russia comes to mind, and China
> >may represent the next big example.
> >
> >On the other hand, democracy has notoriously
> >failed in many instances in South America, and
> >especially in Africa. That, claims Zakaria, has
> >been because the transition was sudden, with
> >little if any constitutional protections. The
> >results have been disastrous, leading to
> >massacres of dissenting ethnic or political
> >minorities, and often to the raise of a brutal
> >dictator favored by an urgent need of
> >reestablishing ?order.?
> >
> >Zakaria?s book was written before the US-led
> >invasion of Iraq, but his points apply
> >remarkably well to the current situation in that
> >country. Of course, nobody would ever think of
> >Saddam Hussein as an ?enlightened? dictator, but
> >it is also obvious that the Iraqi's concept of
> >democracy -- if indeed they do have one -- is of
> >the illiberal type. The Shiite clerics who are
> >pushing the country to the brink of civil war
> >want immediate elections, even though clearly
> >the minimum necessary conditions are not in
> >place. Why? Because they know they would easily
> >win a majority of the votes, which would pave
> >the way to the establishment of a democratically
> >elected theocracy in that country. Not exactly
> >what the so-called coalition of the willing had
> >in mind when they embarked in one of the most
> >ambitious operations of nation building ever
> >attempted (and led by a US president who
> >campaigned against the very idea of nation
> >building). Then again, dictators have come to
> >power by (illiberal) democratic means before,
> >just think of Hitler.
> >
> >Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of Zakaria?s
> >argument is that the US itself may be moving
> >toward an increasingly less liberal form of
> >democracy. Many of the guarantees put in place
> >by the Founding Fathers and embedded in the
> >American Constitution are being eroded, or are
> >increasingly under attack by a politically and
> >religiously conservative (slight) majority. For
> >instance, the US Constitution guarantees a
> >separation of church and state, and yet
> >Americans are increasingly undisturbed by the
> >encroaching of government upon religion (just
> >think of the popularity of ?faith-based?
> >initiatives, school vouchers, etc.), and
> >stubbornly hold to clear symbols of breach of
> >the wall of separation (such as the phrase
> >?under God? in the pledge of allegiance, or ?in
> >God we trust? on the paper currency).
> >
> >All of this is done in the name of democracy,
> >adopting the narrow meaning of the term
> >according to which if the majority (even as
> >slight as 51%) wants something, it should be
> >done. This is precisely what led Plato to reject
> >the democratic model to begin with, and what
> >differentiates successful democracies from
> >abysmal failures. I doubt we will see another
> >Socrates being put to death anywhere in the
> >Western world, but it is significant that
> >intellectuals, or simply independent thinking
> >lay people, are under increasingly vicious
> >attack in the US for simply having the guts to
> >voice their dissent regarding the Bush
> >administration?s foreign or domestic policy. We
> >have gotten to the point that being religious,
> >right-wing, pro-war and patriotic are all seen
> >as synonymous, simply because a narrow (and
> >narrow-minded) majority of Americans currently
> >sees it that way.
> >
> >It is also astounding to see that the right to
> >marry (i.e., to be legally recognized as a
> >couple) is being denied to gays and lesbians by
> >people including those (e.g., some blacks) who
> >until very recently had been discriminated
> >against in their turn by a bigoted majority. The
> >obvious problem with illiberal democracies is
> >that majorities can change, sometimes
> >dramatically and over a short period of time.
> >That is why it is in the long-term interest of
> >every member of a society to defend the rights
> >of the minorities. Next time around, you may be
> >the one to need such protection.
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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>
>Message: 13
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:44:49 -0600
> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese
>To: "Barua25" <barua25 at hotmail.com>, <assam at assamnet.org>
>Message-ID: <a06100502bfd85e63c8bf@[192.168.1.100]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>You asked just one question that needed answering:
>
> >8) Don't you think your policy will take away the basic freedom of
> >an Indian to live anywhere freely in any state in >India? Today an
> >Assamese can live in Gujarat, buy property, and remain as Assamese.
> >Don't you think your >policy will take away this basic freedom?
>
>
>*** Indians can live in India, their homeland. Assam will welcome
>limited number of immigrants, like you are in the USA, in a
>controlled manner; will be my guess about how an independent Assam
>will deal with the issue. Similarly India may or may not allow
>immigrants from Assam in their midst. But contemporary realities will
>dictate that both, an independent Assam and India will retain
>cultural contacts and will have mutual economic interests, resulting
>in a friendly and neighborly existence.
>
>This has become necessary due to the ABSENCE of the checks and
>balances of a democratic Indian state the people of Assam hoped for
>and banked on when they agreed to join India when the British left,
>leaving them exploited and robbed of their rights in their own
>homeland.
>
>*** Everything else you ask are questions contrived to keep Assam as
>a colony for Indian interests. Your concerns for the rights of the
>indigenous peoples of the region is, and their cultural/language
>identities are at best, affected ones and lack sincerity, as could
>be well ascertained from some of your own arguments right here in
>this forum; as in your taunting of Tarun Gogoi et al, for NOT having
>the GUTS to enforce Assamese as the state language of Assam, 'even
>after India has given Assam the permission' or some such assertions.
>
>Your arguments, as seen often here, are attempts to have it both
>ways; demonstrating an underlying need for recognition driving you,
>and not necessarily for the best of the people of Assam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 12:44 AM -0600 12/28/05, Barua25 wrote:
> >"Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their
> >homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos,
> >Dimasas, Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc. Assam is NOT the homeland for
> >Biharis, not for Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests
> >there. And become Assamese in time thru a process of assimilation.
> >But they cannot REMAIN itinerant Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis
> >but claim to be Assamese at the same time. That is the difference" -
> >Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> >
> >Chandan:
> >No I have not asked you the questions yet. Many questions arise out
> >of your above statement; Following are some.
> >1) What exactly the slogan : Assam IS for Assamese mean? What is the
> >definition of an Assamese.
> >Mr Dhiren Bezbarooah told me this time that they had been asked at
> >one time to leave Assam as some people donot consider them to be
> >Assamese. Where do you think this Assam for Assamese will end?
> >2) Does Assam for Assamese mean that only Assamese language will be
> >considered as the national language of Assam? What about other
> >languages?
> >3) You mentioned about being assimilated into Assamese to be an
> >Assamese. With what yardstick, you measure the process of
> >'assimilation"? Ability to speak Assamese and dance Bihu Dance? Does
> >it mean those who have not assimilated into Assamese by your
> >standard will not get equal right in Assam? Will they have voting
> >right? Will they be taxed more than an Assamese?
> >4) Will the children of Assamese parents living outside Assam be
> >considered as Assamese although they donot know how to speak
> >Assamese and dance Bihu dance (that is if that is the yardstick)?
> >5) Some ethnic groups like the Bodos have not assimilated into the
> >Assamese, and never intend to and most of them actually claim not to
> >be considered as Assamese at all but to be considered as Bodos and
> >are claiming for separate Bodoland. Where they will fit in your
> >scheme for Assam for Assamese? What about the Dimasas, Mising and
> >others? What if they donot want to be considered as Assamese? Do
> >they have any freedom in choice, or is ir a leave it or take it
> >policy by force?
> >6) You have not shown the Bengalis in Assam who have been living in
> >Assam for ages and who love Assam but who want to remain
> >as Bengalis, maintaining their separate culture, where they will
> >fit? Can they claim Assam as their homeland? Will they be
> >second-class citizens in Assam?
> >7) Same thing goes for Nepalis, Marwaris, Biharis, Bangladeshi and
> >others who have been living in Assam for aghes, have landed property
> >in Assam but donot want to assimilate and claim as Assamese, what
> >will be their fate? Why you want them to assimilate into Assamese?
> >Again what is the crieria of assimilation? Speaking Assamese and
> >dancing Bihu dance?
> >8) Don't you think your policy will take away the basic freedom of
> >an Indian to live anywhere freely in any state in India? Today an
> >Assamese can live in Gujarat, buy property, and remain as Assamese.
> >Don't you think your policy will take away this basic freedom?
> >9) Don't you think your above policy will farther divide the people
> >of Assam? Is this not the reason why we lost the Khasis, the Nagas,
> >the Lusais, the Garos and others because of Assamese hegemony among
> >them.
> >10) Do you find such policy in any country? Texas for Texans only
> >etc? Thus is it not against basic individual freedom of people?
> >
> >Anyhow this is flatly not my Assam. Later I will tell you what
> >policy will be in force in my Assam.
> >
> >RB
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 14
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:46:26 +0530
> From: "mc mahant" <mikemahant at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Liberal vs. illiberal democracy
>To: cmahanta at charter.net
>Cc: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID: <BAY13-F27E4883A822C6B713D5102DA360 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 15
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:53:51 -0600
> From: Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>Subject: [Assam] Assam is for Assamese - another take
>To: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>Cc: assam at assamnet.org
>Message-ID:
> <6e564ddf0512280853g4f599c9brf408e8568f8ffe20 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>C'da,
>
>Sorry to butt into the conversation, but I just couldn't help my self
>thinking that this idea of an independent Assam is based more on
>emotions (not that it is bad) and less on practicallity.
>
>For instance, the following,
>
> > Assam will welcome limited number of immigrants, like you are in the USA, in a >controlled manner; will be my guess about how an independent Assam will deal >with the issue. Similarly India may or may not allow immigrants from Assam in >their midst. But contemporary realities will dictate that both, an independent >Assam and India will retain cultural contacts and will have mutual economic >interests, resulting in a friendly and neighborly existence.
>
>I find very hard to imagine coming into fruition.
>
>Those who wish for an independent Assam should be able to tell the
>rest of us how and when they would be able to solve the following
>problems:
>
>Illegal immigration from Bangladesh. If the GOI for whatever reason
>has NOT been able (or willing) to stem this problem, how will (a much
>weaker economically and militarily, newly formed, independent Assam)
>Assam SOLVE this huge problem?
>
>Corruption: While it is agreed that corruption is rife all over India,
>people will tell you that Assam takes the cake. Even if this analyses
>is only 50% correct, how will this new Assam, well-taught in the art
>of corrupt practices by those damned Indians for decades, suddenly
>become a paragon of virtue?
>Question is, can you take this 'Indian trait' out of the Assamese in
>this new state?
>Or will this new nation have a mass infusion of virtuous people from
>some other continent?
>
>Infrastructure: I had the opportunity to talk to a variety of people
>this time around. What most expressed was this in summation: There are
>no industries. The thing that flourishes most is Trading and Retail.
>But there are no industries that have come up - like steel mills, auto
>factories etc that can provide local jobs. Yes, we have Oil, Tea and
>Plywood. I am not sure of the figures, but keep hearing that
>production capacities have dwindled. In fact, it seems, tea is not
>doing well in the world market at all, and the gardens in Assam are
>undergoing huge problems.
>
>How long will it take to build some reasonable infrastructure?
>
>Intellectual Capital: Will an independent Assam have enough of this?
>Will all the Assamese intellectuals go back? Will the new nation
>import from other countries? From India?
>
>What type of government would they want for the new state? This is a
>serious question, specially if one were to look at Bangladesh? After
>independence, B'desh
>too wanted big things, no corruption, rule of law, democracy etc.
>After, umpteen years, the biggest export B'desh has had is humans
>across the border. In every other aspiration, they have failed, and is
>essentially a failed state heavily dependent on doles from other
>nations. If I am not mistaken, even countries like Nepal and Pakistan
>render aid to B'desh.
>
>Question is, how will Assam NOT follow the B'desh example. The reason
>I bring up B'desh is because geographically and culturally Assam is
>more akin to B'desh than say Latvia.
>
>Area: What geographical area will this new nation consist of? Will
>parts of Assam be given to our brothers/sisters in Nagaland?
>Essentially, what is the land area that will be called Assam. Is there
>a map?
>
>Lastly, money: Will the new nation be able to sustain itself or
>go-a-begging like every other 3rd-world country? Of course, begging is
>not a recourse, because every nation that will be willing to help will
>certainly attach strings, which in turn will obviously erode the very
>freedoms that people wanted.
>
>I could go on. What I am really trying is to see if those who is
>advocating an independent Assam are looking into this aspiration with
>reality in mind and not just emotions.
>
>Are these people willing to bring out a broad plan and show the rest
>of us of the sheer feasibility of an independent Assam.
>At least that would be nice, instead of going around in circles.
>
>--Ram
>
>
>On 12/28/05, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> > You asked just one question that needed answering:
> >
> > >8) Don't you think your policy will take away the basic freedom of an
> > Indian to live anywhere freely in any state in >India? Today an Assamese can
> > live in Gujarat, buy property, and remain as Assamese. Don't you think your
> > >policy will take away this basic freedom?
> >
> >
> > *** Indians can live in India, their homeland. Assam will welcome limited
> > number of immigrants, like you are in the USA, in a controlled manner; will
> > be my guess about how an independent Assam will deal with the issue.
> > Similarly India may or may not allow immigrants from Assam in their midst.
> > But contemporary realities will dictate that both, an independent Assam and
> > India will retain cultural contacts and will have mutual economic interests,
> > resulting in a friendly and neighborly existence.
> >
> > This has become necessary due to the ABSENCE of the checks and balances of a
> > democratic Indian state the people of Assam hoped for and banked on when
> > they agreed to join India when the British left, leaving them exploited and
> > robbed of their rights in their own homeland.
> >
> > *** Everything else you ask are questions contrived to keep Assam as a
> > colony for Indian interests. Your concerns for the rights of the indigenous
> > peoples of the region is, and their cultural/language identities are at
> > best, affected ones and lack sincerity, as could be well ascertained from
> > some of your own arguments right here in this forum; as in your taunting of
> > Tarun Gogoi et al, for NOT having the GUTS to enforce Assamese as the state
> > language of Assam, 'even after India has given Assam the permission' or some
> > such assertions.
> >
> > Your arguments, as seen often here, are attempts to have it both ways;
> > demonstrating an underlying need for recognition driving you, and not
> > necessarily for the best of the people of Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 12:44 AM -0600 12/28/05, Barua25 wrote:
> > "Assam IS for the Assamese -- those who BELONG to Assam. It is their
> > homeland. It includes many different ethnic groups. Ahoms, Bodos, Dimasas,
> > Misings, Karbis-- etc. etc. Assam is NOT the homeland for Biharis, not for
> > Marwaris, not for B'deshis. They can be guests there. And become Assamese in
> > time thru a process of assimilation. But they cannot REMAIN itinerant
> > Marwaris and Biharis and B'deshis but claim to be Assamese at the same time.
> > That is the difference" - Chandan Mahanta (Jan 26, 2005)
> > Chandan:
> > No I have not asked you the questions yet. Many questions arise out of your
> > above statement; Following are some.
> > 1) What exactly the slogan : Assam IS for Assamese mean? What is the
> > definition of an Assamese.
> > Mr Dhiren Bezbarooah told me this time that they had been asked at one time
> > to leave Assam as some people donot consider them to be Assamese. Where do
> > you think this Assam for Assamese will end?
> > 2) Does Assam for Assamese mean that only Assamese language will be
> > considered as the national language of Assam? What about other languages?
> > 3) You mentioned about being assimilated into Assamese to be an Assamese.
> > With what yardstick, you measure the process of 'assimilation"? Ability to
> > speak Assamese and dance Bihu Dance? Does it mean those who have not
> > assimilated into Assamese by your standard will not get equal right in
> > Assam? Will they have voting right? Will they be taxed more than an
> > Assamese?
> > 4) Will the children of Assamese parents living outside Assam be considered
> > as Assamese although they donot know how to speak Assamese and dance Bihu
> > dance (that is if that is the yardstick)?
> > 5) Some ethnic groups like the Bodos have not assimilated into the Assamese,
> > and never intend to and most of them actually claim not to be considered as
> > Assamese at all but to be considered as Bodos and are claiming for separate
> > Bodoland. Where they will fit in your scheme for Assam for Assamese? What
> > about the Dimasas, Mising and others? What if they donot want to be
> > considered as Assamese? Do they have any freedom in choice, or is ir a leave
> > it or take it policy by force?
> > 6) You have not shown the Bengalis in Assam who have been living in Assam
> > for ages and who love Assam but who want to remain as Bengalis, maintaining
> > their separate culture, where they will fit? Can they claim Assam as their
> > homeland? Will they be second-class citizens in Assam?
> > 7) Same thing goes for Nepalis, Marwaris, Biharis, Bangladeshi and others
> > who have been living in Assam for aghes, have landed property in Assam but
> > donot want to assimilate and claim as Assamese, what will be their fate? Why
> > you want them to assimilate into Assamese? Again what is the crieria of
> > assimilation? Speaking Assamese and dancing Bihu dance?
> > 8) Don't you think your policy will take away the basic freedom of an Indian
> > to live anywhere freely in any state in India? Today an Assamese can live in
> > Gujarat, buy property, and remain as Assamese. Don't you think your policy
> > will take away this basic freedom?
> > 9) Don't you think your above policy will farther divide the people of
> > Assam? Is this not the reason why we lost the Khasis, the Nagas, the Lusais,
> > the Garos and others because of Assamese hegemony among them.
> > 10) Do you find such policy in any country? Texas for Texans only etc? Thus
> > is it not against basic individual freedom of people?
> >
> > Anyhow this is flatly not my Assam. Later I will tell you what policy will
> > be in force in my Assam.
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
>
>End of assam Digest, Vol 5, Issue 47
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