[Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement

Sat Sep 2 02:22:35 EDT 2006

Barua,

>Debate does not work here.

That is unfortunate and a big let down.  I actually was not trying to
debate. These were genuine concerns and I was trying to get your expertise
on the issue. You gave some reasons of how Assamese are different from the
rest of India - ie. you mentioned culture,history, food, language as
prominent points of difference.

>Assamese Brahmins are not vegetarians

And so are Bengalis and Punjabis.

All I said was how could that be - as other states also have the similar
differences. But now, you have brought in something else : "feeling" -  and

>Assamese are not. Assamese feel that everybody are exploiting them of Assam
>rich natural resources.  That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi
never >would feel alien in India. Assamese feel.

You did not bring up intrinsic feelings or some complex (inferiority, I
assume) that Assamese have while others supposedly don't.

>That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi never >would feel alien in
>India. Assamese feel.

Ah! at last we come to something here. If that is how all Assamese genuinely
feel, then the case for independence is stronger, and Assam should seek
independence forthright and it would at least be the right reason. Why don't
the Assamese intelligentia in one voice tell that to the GOI.

But then all the other stuff - this treaty, that history, cultural
difference or language or Namgarhs,  we keep hearing have no relevance at
all in this fight for independence. They must be  something to just throw
in, right? :-)

This time, I am debating, but before I didn't :-)

--Ram

On 9/2/06, Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   >There are cultural and historical differences. That is the crux of the
> problem. >History, language, culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are
> different than >the rest of the Indians.
>
> Other than some states in the North, most other states in India have these
> differences. Orissa borders W Bengal and Andhra - all three states have
> these differences. Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Goa, and Kerala are also
> likewise different. Punjab is different. I see only 3  or 4 states close
> enough :MP, UP, Bihar, and that other new state.
> Even the states (seven sisters?) are as far apart from each other -
> culturally, language, food etc. The common strings are border, currency and
> maybe religion among some of them.
>
>  Ram:
> Some things are for feeling, not for winning by debate. If you donot get
> it you donot get it. I can't help you. Geographically others were never
> isolated from mainland India like Assam. Assamese Brahmins are not
> vegetarians, Oriya Brahmins are.  Others have temple culture, Assam has
> Namghar culture, Bihu culture.  Assamese has X sound, rest of India does
> not. Others do not have such ethnic divergence within a state like Assam.
> Seven sisters are different, but that does not make your case. We are
> talking about Assam. Nagaland also feel the same way. They donot want to
> stay with Assam either. Such are the cases with all the eight sisters of
> NE.
> Most importantly most others (Punjabi, Marwari, Gujrati, Bengali, Keralite
> and others) are agressive enough to make a profitable living out of India,
> Assamese are not. Assamese feel that everybody are exploiting them of Assam
> rich natural resources.  That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi
> never would feel alien in India. Assamese feel. That is the crux of the
> matter. One will have to understand these delicate issues. Debate does not
> work here.
>
> RB
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* mc mahant <mikemahant at hotmail.com> ; cmahanta at charter.net ;
> assam at assamnet.org
>  *Sent:* Friday, September 01, 2006 10:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
>
>
> Barua,
>
> >Are you sure all the people of Assam either for or against independence?
>
>
> All I said was, it would be doubtful to find people who are ambivalent on
> this issue.
>
> >Many people may not support independence simply because at present they
> >may not see anything to support.
>
> That is an interesting way to put it. It suggests that people may actually
> support independence ONLY when they see some kind of benefit (be it material
> or something else). If they were FORCED to, then they would all fall in line
> and then support an independence movement?
>
> >Well there can be movement for independence without the support of
> >history based on the present state of affairs if the people are for
> >independence for whatver reasons
>
> If that then is the case, wouldn't such a movement have no basis?
> "Whatever reasons" suggests that if someone were to ask -'why do you want
> independence?' There could be any number of reasons -- just like the '6
> Blind men of Hindustan' describing an elephant.
>
> >There are cultural and historical differences. That is the crux of the
> problem. >History, language, culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are
> different than >the rest of the Indians.
>
> Other than some states in the North, most other states in India have these
> differences. Orissa borders W Bengal and Andhra - all three states have
> these differences. Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Goa, and Kerala are also
> likewise different. Punjab is different. I see only 3  or 4 states close
> enough :MP, UP, Bihar, and that other new state.
> Even the states (seven sisters?) are as far apart from each other -
> culturally, language, food etc. The common strings are border, currency and
> maybe religion among some of them.
>
> I agree there are some differences in history. But the history of northern
> and southern states are also different. The Mugals barely, just barely
> touched the South (Hyderabad) and before that North India and South India
> were like 2 separate countries.
>
> >However, Assam is at present without any cultural or political leader to
> >make things right, and nobody is protesting openly.
>
> You may have a point there. I think there is a lot of political apathy
> present. People may be interested only in getting the best out of a bad
> situation.
> There seem to be some positive signs. The Govt. has now fired some teacher
> (and doctors may be next) for securing jobs on fake documents etc. The
> Education minister conducted surprise raids in schools and fired even some
> directors .
>
> --Ram
>
>
> So, I submit, that cannot be of any overriding significance.
>
>
> On 8/31/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >   >How can you be in the middle? I doubt, if one could find anyone
> > (Assamese) who is neither here nor there :-)
> >
> >  Are you sure all the people of Assam either for or against
> > independence?  Many people may not support independence simply because at
> > present they may not see anything to support.  It does not mean however that
> > all those people are against independence of Assam.
> >
> > >I was not aware of this.
> >
> >  This is basic elementary history stuff which all people of Assam should
> > know.
> >
> > >But if this the case, then the most important question  is:  Why this
> > movement for independence? Are the pro->independence people just brushing
> > aside history? Why are they now claiming otherwise?
> >
> > Well there can be movement for independence without the support of
> > history based on the present state of affairs if the people are for
> > independence for whatver reasons. But I don't see any movement on this
> > basis.  I don't see any discussions or debates on this in a democratic
> > process. Do you see any? Any independence movement based on Assam's past
> > history since Yandabu Xondhi is rather weak now and will get weaker
> > everyday, unlike that of the Nagas who has a stronger claim and who has been
> > fighting for their independence since 1940s. (Please note that we Assamese
> > never supported the independence movement of the Nagas and rather supported
> > the GOI in supressing the Nagas, BTW).
> >
> > >I thought that this independence movement was not based on cultural or
> > historical differences or events, but on the >aspirations of a few people
> > for power.
> >
> > I think you are wrong again. There are cultural and historical
> > differences. That is the crux of the problem. History, language, culture,
> > dress, food, religion - Assamese are different than the rest of the
> > Indians.  However, in Assam there is a conflict between the Aryan and
> > Mongoloid culture. Since independence and before, caste Hindu Assamese
> > intellectuals are pulling towards Pan Indian Hindu culture undermining much
> > of the Mongoloid culture and diluting much of the Assamese original
> > culture.   The attempt to abolish the name 'Assam' (which is an Assamese
> > word derived from the word 'Shyam' which is based on original Tai-Ahom
> > source) is a latest case in point angainst the supression of the Mongolid
> > culture.  However, Assam is at present without any cultural or political
> > leader to make things right, and nobody is protesting openly. However all
> > these pent up anger will lead Assam into much darker future where all ethnic
> > groups fighting against each other.
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > *Cc:* mc mahant <mikemahant at hotmail.com> ; cmahanta at charter.net ;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >  *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:14 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
> >
> >
> > Dear Barua,
> >
> > >This should not be interpreted to mean that I support (or
> > >object) Independence of Assam
> >
> > How can you be in the middle? I doubt, if one could find anyone
> > (Assamese) who is neither here nor there :-)
> >
> > > If you read history, Assam was actually begging Gandhi and Nehru and
> > the >Congress, before 1947, so that Assam can stay with India.  (Please! let
> > us >stay with you guys, *ami apwnalwkor nkina golam hoi thakim*).
> >
> > This is some very interesting history. I was not aware of this. But if
> > this the case, then the most important question  is:  Why this movement for
> > indpendence? Are the pro-independence people just brushing aside history?
> > Why are they now claiming otherwise?
> > I wrote a post some days ago (forget the exact words), where I thought
> > that this indepenence movement was not based on cultural or historial
> > differences or events, but on the aspirations of a few people for power. All
> > they did was to play up on the emotions of sections of the Assamese on
> > issues like step-motherly treatment, economically being sidelined etc. to
> > keep the movement alive.
> >
> > > (Is there any field where Assam is taking a leadership role?)
> >
> > How about bandhs? :-). No, no, its not so bad. Today, we see many
> > Assamese in leading roles throughout India, both in Govt. and in the private
> > sectors. But, unfortunately, very few poistive things are happening in Assam
> > itself.
> >
> > --Ram
> >
> >
> > On 8/31/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Ram:
> > > Thanks.
> > > Couple of clarifications lest people mis-interpret my statement.
> > >
> > >  >Assamese are suffering from an acute inferiority complex.
> > >  >That is why they want to stay with India and are staying with India
> > > and will stay with India forever.
> > > >That is why they never raised their voice to stay as an independent
> > > country at the time of India's independence.
> > > >Even now hardly any Assamese are raising their voice for
> > > independence.
> > >
> > >  The above statement of mine is just a statement of the realty. This
> > > should not be interpreted to mean that I support (or object) Independence of
> > > Assam. I am simply saying that Assamese is not a warrior people with high
> > > National spirit or unity like the Nagas or other people and donot have the
> > > will, courage, spirit and love of freedom for independence. I agree that
> > > 'independence' is definitely a 'pipe dream' now (specially since we donot
> > > have any leader), but probably it was not a pipe dream when Assam was under
> > > the British till 1947.  (I have my own analysis why Assam lost the freedom
> > > spirit after 1857 when Maniram Dewan was hanged). Today, whether we NEED
> > > independence or not is completely another subject.
> > >
> > > The second realty is that, Assamese is not even an equal partner in
> > > the Indian Independence movement and in the Indian Democratic game today. If
> > > you read history, Assam was actually begging Gandhi and Nehru and the
> > > Congress, before 1947, so that Assam can stay with India.  (Please! let us
> > > stay with you guys, *ami apwnalwkor nkina golam hoi thakim*). There
> > > was no movement for an Independent Assam as an alternative to joining
> > > Pakistan. Assam could have very well say it to the British, at that time:
> > > Please give us back our Assam that you took from us in 1826. But Assam did
> > > not.  In fact the Assamese were so happy to be a part of India that Assamese
> > > wanted to forget the six hundred years of Ahom rule. Assamese novelist wrote
> > > novels *'Kwnw Khed Nai*" (No Regret) ridiculing the six hundred years
> > > of Ahom rule. Eminent man of literature took comfort and wrote
> > > auto-biography titled : "Kongresor Kasioli Rodot". This is a realty.
> > >
> > > Now having joined India on its own choice (or its own begging) we are
> > > complaining that India is treating Assam like a step child.  Today the
> > > insurgency in Assam is happening as a negative outlet because of lack of
> > > leadership in Assam. It is not a positive movement for independence by any
> > > means.
> > >
> > > Your statement that
> > >  "They very well know that their lot is in much better state staying
> > > with India than being independent."
> > >  Actually people of Assam donot have any choice, do they? Your
> > > statement also goes to show that people of Assam lack even the confidence in
> > > their own people. In other words it goes to prove my statement that they are
> > > suffering from a acute inferiority complex.
> > >
> > > If one analyze the stream of events, one will come to the conclusion,
> > > that Assamese is a follower, a litikai to the mainland Indians. (Is there
> > > any field where Assam is taking a leadership role?) This is a realty.
> > >
> > > That is and will be Assam's lot till we can create new and competent
> > > leaders. The earlier we realize this the better so that we can act.
> > >
> > > RB
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> > > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > > *Cc:* mc mahant <mikemahant at hotmail.com> ; cmahanta at charter.net ;
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:20 AM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Barua,
> > >
> > > >Even now hardly any Assamese are raising their voice for
> > > >independence.
> > >
> > > Very few actually raised the voice of independence, and fewer still do
> > > so today. I think, in case for independence, most Assamese are actually
> > > being savvy and and realize what a pipe dream this venture really is. They
> > > very well know that their lot is in much better state staying with India
> > > than being independent. That is why, you will find very few voices for
> > > independence.
> > >
> > > I doubt they are being  'litikai' at all.
> > >
> > > Just my thoughts.
> > >
> > > --Ram
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/28/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  I thought I never had to respond.
> > > >
> > > > Assamese are suffereing from an acute inferiority complex.
> > > > That is why they want to stay with India and are staying with India
> > > > and will stay with India forever.
> > > > That is why they never raised their voice to stay as an independent
> > > > country at the time of India's independence.
> > > > Even now hardly any Assamese are raising their voice for
> > > > independence.
> > > >
> > > > Today Assamese are not even complaining against the GOI. They are
> > > > simply saying that GOI is treating Assam like a step child. All Assam wants,
> > > > is GOI to treat them as a 'legitimate child.' They dream of the day when Mai
> > > > Bap GOI would treat them as their own child. That is all they want. That
> > > > is the highest dream of an Assamese. As a result they wait for GOI's
> > > > command to say what Assam would do so that they follow GOI like a 'litikai'
> > > > and can please GOI.
> > > >
> > > > Assamese could solve lot of their problems if simply they would
> > > > stand up and voice in confidence.
> > > > They are suffering so much in inferiority complex, they even shy
> > > > away to pronounce Oxom and are trying to say Asom so that their big brothers
> > > > would not laugh. There is hardly any Assamese intellectual left in Assam.
> > > > They even donot know their own history and culture.
> > > >
> > > > Poor, pathetic 'litikai' Assamese with their 'tilika' minds.
> > > >
> > > > RB
> > > >
> > > >  ----- Original Message -----
> > > > *From:* Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> > > >  *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> ; mc mahant<mikemahant at hotmail.com>;
> > > > cmahanta at charter.net
> > > > *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> > > >  *Sent:* Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:19 PM
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rajen:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >It is an Assamese problem of inferiority complex. Nobody will save
> > > > the Assamese. We should stop blamimg the GOI.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *** Can you explain how or why it is an Assamese problem only, free
> > > > of any connection or responsibility of GoI?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is important to understand that, if your advice to 'stop blaming
> > > > GoI' is to be taken seriously.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > c
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 11:12 PM -0500 8/22/06, Barua25 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Not just no- drinking/washing water-
> > > >
> > > > >No solid waste management/garbage collection/disposal fit for a*city
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > >No sewer/sewage treatment/ storm-water disposal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why we don't hear any of these news in Kharkhowa News Papers? Why
> > > > the news papers in are interested in news from mainland India instead?
> > > >
> > > > It is an Assamese problem of inferiority complex. Nobody will save
> > > > the Assamese. We should stop blamimg the GOI.
> > > >
> > > > RB
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > *From:* mc mahant <mikemahant at hotmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > *To:* cmahanta at charter.net
> > > >
> > > > *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> > > >
> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:21 AM
> > > >
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not just no- drinking/washing water-
> > > >
> > > > No solid waste management/garbage collection/disposal fit for a*city
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > No sewer/sewage treatment/ storm-water disposal
> > > >
> > > > Raw sewage from so-called* Septic tanks of 2 million people* just
> > > > dumped into the pure river.What happens to the health of
> > > > Kamrup/Goalpara/Dhubri--and the whole nation -Bangladesh?
> > > >
> > > > And Delhi's very own Refinery dumps daily 100 tons of Oil waste
> > > > direct to river or through Guahati drain system/Bharalu and no Pollution
> > > > Control Board dares to touch them.
> > > >
> > > > Indian Science does not know/cares to know  that 1 drop of oil
> > > > spreads to a film of 100 sq mtr opaque for Oxygen.
> > > >
> > > > No Oxygen-> no planktons->no fish->no Xihoo (River Porpoise).
> > > >
> > > > Who Cares!
> > > >
> > > >  P.S.Thanks for the free publicity {MC Mahanta's
> > > > bamboo-reinforcement}
> > > >
> > > > Let ignorance/bigotry/mediocrity thrive!!!
> > > >
> > > > mm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > From:  *Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>*
> > > > To:  * assam at assamnet.org*
> > > > Subject:  *Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement*
> > > > Date:  *Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:55:48 -0500*
> > > > >This whole notion of a city, with as large a population as Guahati,
> > > > >not having a municipal water supply system is absolutely atrocious,
> > > >
> > > > >and that while sitting on the bank of the Brahmaputra.
> > > > >
> > > > >It is entirely a result of the dysfunctional desi-system of
> > > > governance; which
> > > > >is unaccountable to anyone, made up of thoroughly incompetent
> > > > people, and who
> > > > >do not have a clue as to how to tap into the abilities and skills
> > > > of
> > > > >its own people.
> > > > >
> > > > >Nothing could change for the better under this system. Only option
> > > > is
> > > > >to dump it and build a new society from its ashes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >At 6:48 AM -0700 8/22/06, Rajib Das wrote:
> > > > > >The big problem is there is no water under your land
> > > > > >in Guwahati. As there are areas, including my house,
> > > > > >where city water supply does not reach. Not that it
> > > > > >would help greatly. At least 3 to 4 months of a year,
> > > > > >it is the same problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So the problem exists. The solution is not under your
> > > > > >plot of land. If Brahmaputra water can be
> > > > > >appropriately filtered and sold, that is a different
> > > > > >animal all together.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >assam mailing list
> > > > >assam at assamnet.org
> > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > >
> > > >  ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > assam mailing list
> > > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > assam mailing list
> > > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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