[Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Rajen & Ajanta Barua
barua25 at hotmail.com
Sat Sep 2 10:10:16 EDT 2006
>That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi never >would feel alien in >India. Assamese feel.
Ah! at last we come to something here. If that is how all Assamese genuinely feel, then the case for independence is stronger, and Assam should seek independence forthright and it would at least be the right reason. Why don't the Assamese intelligential in one voice tell that to the GOI.
But then all the other stuff - this treaty, that history, cultural difference or language or Namgarhs, we keep hearing have no relevance at all in this fight for independence. They must be something to just throw in, right? :-)
This time, I am debating, but before I didn't :-)
Ram:
We are getting there, but you should have known better after being raised in Assam.
Assamese does not have any 'intellengtia nor any leader to voice that in one voice to GOI. That is why they could not ask for an independent Assam even in 1947, because Gandhi, Nehru, and other Indian big brothers would not approve it.
Similar cultural differences that others have, act as their superiority complex if at all. But in case of Assamese these act as inferiority complex. With the similar religion like that of Xongkordev, , the Sikh establish Gurudwars with head high; Assamese on the other hand try to find which Pan Indian sect Xongkordev was a follower of, whether Xongkordev was or was not a follower of Sri Saitanyadev etc. They could even write one book on Xongkordev on National lavel yet. Assamese cannot even pronounce the word Xongkordev outside Assam. They write and say Sankardev. Assamese object to use the X with the simple reason that if they write X their big Indian brothers would not understand and would mis pronounce Oxom. (What a logic!. Should we say then the Mexican should not write Mexico or California change the spelling of San Jose because everybody mis pronounce these words?)
So bottom-line is this. in my opinion:
1) Cultural, linguistic and ethnic differences.
2) Passive non aggressive nature of the Assamese
3) Numerical minority
4) A feeling of alienation
5) Lack of Assamese leaders and intellingtia
6) Acute sense of inferiority complex
etc etc
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ram Sarangapani
To: Rajen & Ajanta Barua
Cc: mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net ; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Barua,
>Debate does not work here.
That is unfortunate and a big let down. I actually was not trying to debate. These were genuine concerns and I was trying to get your expertise on the issue. You gave some reasons of how Assamese are different from the rest of India - ie. you mentioned culture,history, food, language as prominent points of difference.
>Assamese Brahmins are not vegetarians
And so are Bengalis and Punjabis.
All I said was how could that be - as other states also have the similar differences. But now, you have brought in something else : "feeling" - and
>Assamese are not. Assamese feel that everybody are exploiting them of Assam >rich natural resources. That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi never >would feel alien in India. Assamese feel.
You did not bring up intrinsic feelings or some complex (inferiority, I assume) that Assamese have while others supposedly don't.
>That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi never >would feel alien in >India. Assamese feel.
Ah! at last we come to something here. If that is how all Assamese genuinely feel, then the case for independence is stronger, and Assam should seek independence forthright and it would at least be the right reason. Why don't the Assamese intelligentia in one voice tell that to the GOI.
But then all the other stuff - this treaty, that history, cultural difference or language or Namgarhs, we keep hearing have no relevance at all in this fight for independence. They must be something to just throw in, right? :-)
This time, I am debating, but before I didn't :-)
--Ram
On 9/2/06, Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>There are cultural and historical differences. That is the crux of the problem. >History, language, culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are different than >the rest of the Indians.
Other than some states in the North, most other states in India have these differences. Orissa borders W Bengal and Andhra - all three states have these differences. Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Goa, and Kerala are also likewise different. Punjab is different. I see only 3 or 4 states close enough :MP, UP, Bihar, and that other new state.
Even the states (seven sisters?) are as far apart from each other - culturally, language, food etc. The common strings are border, currency and maybe religion among some of them.
Ram:
Some things are for feeling, not for winning by debate. If you donot get it you donot get it. I can't help you. Geographically others were never isolated from mainland India like Assam. Assamese Brahmins are not vegetarians, Oriya Brahmins are. Others have temple culture, Assam has Namghar culture, Bihu culture. Assamese has X sound, rest of India does not. Others do not have such ethnic divergence within a state like Assam. Seven sisters are different, but that does not make your case. We are talking about Assam. Nagaland also feel the same way. They donot want to stay with Assam either. Such are the cases with all the eight sisters of NE.
Most importantly most others (Punjabi, Marwari, Gujrati, Bengali, Keralite and others) are agressive enough to make a profitable living out of India, Assamese are not. Assamese feel that everybody are exploiting them of Assam rich natural resources. That is why a Marwari or a Bengali or a Punjabi never would feel alien in India. Assamese feel. That is the crux of the matter. One will have to understand these delicate issues. Debate does not work here.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ram Sarangapani
To: Barua25
Cc: mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net ; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Barua,
>Are you sure all the people of Assam either for or against independence?
All I said was, it would be doubtful to find people who are ambivalent on this issue.
>Many people may not support independence simply because at present they >may not see anything to support.
That is an interesting way to put it. It suggests that people may actually support independence ONLY when they see some kind of benefit (be it material or something else). If they were FORCED to, then they would all fall in line and then support an independence movement?
>Well there can be movement for independence without the support of >history based on the present state of affairs if the people are for >independence for whatver reasons
If that then is the case, wouldn't such a movement have no basis? "Whatever reasons" suggests that if someone were to ask -'why do you want independence?' There could be any number of reasons -- just like the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an elephant.
>There are cultural and historical differences. That is the crux of the problem. >History, language, culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are different than >the rest of the Indians.
Other than some states in the North, most other states in India have these differences. Orissa borders W Bengal and Andhra - all three states have these differences. Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Goa, and Kerala are also likewise different. Punjab is different. I see only 3 or 4 states close enough :MP, UP, Bihar, and that other new state.
Even the states (seven sisters?) are as far apart from each other - culturally, language, food etc. The common strings are border, currency and maybe religion among some of them.
I agree there are some differences in history. But the history of northern and southern states are also different. The Mugals barely, just barely touched the South (Hyderabad) and before that North India and South India were like 2 separate countries.
>However, Assam is at present without any cultural or political leader to >make things right, and nobody is protesting openly.
You may have a point there. I think there is a lot of political apathy present. People may be interested only in getting the best out of a bad situation.
There seem to be some positive signs. The Govt. has now fired some teacher (and doctors may be next) for securing jobs on fake documents etc. The Education minister conducted surprise raids in schools and fired even some directors .
--Ram
So, I submit, that cannot be of any overriding significance.
On 8/31/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>How can you be in the middle? I doubt, if one could find anyone (Assamese) who is neither here nor there :-)
Are you sure all the people of Assam either for or against independence? Many people may not support independence simply because at present they may not see anything to support. It does not mean however that all those people are against independence of Assam.
>I was not aware of this.
This is basic elementary history stuff which all people of Assam should know.
>But if this the case, then the most important question is: Why this movement for independence? Are the pro->independence people just brushing aside history? Why are they now claiming otherwise?
Well there can be movement for independence without the support of history based on the present state of affairs if the people are for independence for whatver reasons. But I don't see any movement on this basis. I don't see any discussions or debates on this in a democratic process. Do you see any? Any independence movement based on Assam's past history since Yandabu Xondhi is rather weak now and will get weaker everyday, unlike that of the Nagas who has a stronger claim and who has been fighting for their independence since 1940s. (Please note that we Assamese never supported the independence movement of the Nagas and rather supported the GOI in supressing the Nagas, BTW).
>I thought that this independence movement was not based on cultural or historical differences or events, but on the >aspirations of a few people for power.
I think you are wrong again. There are cultural and historical differences. That is the crux of the problem. History, language, culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are different than the rest of the Indians. However, in Assam there is a conflict between the Aryan and Mongoloid culture. Since independence and before, caste Hindu Assamese intellectuals are pulling towards Pan Indian Hindu culture undermining much of the Mongoloid culture and diluting much of the Assamese original culture. The attempt to abolish the name 'Assam' (which is an Assamese word derived from the word 'Shyam' which is based on original Tai-Ahom source) is a latest case in point angainst the supression of the Mongolid culture. However, Assam is at present without any cultural or political leader to make things right, and nobody is protesting openly. However all these pent up anger will lead Assam into much darker future where all ethnic groups fighting against each other.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ram Sarangapani
To: Barua25
Cc: mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net ; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Dear Barua,
>This should not be interpreted to mean that I support (or >object) Independence of Assam
How can you be in the middle? I doubt, if one could find anyone (Assamese) who is neither here nor there :-)
> If you read history, Assam was actually begging Gandhi and Nehru and the >Congress, before 1947, so that Assam can stay with India. (Please! let us >stay with you guys, ami apwnalwkor nkina golam hoi thakim).
This is some very interesting history. I was not aware of this. But if this the case, then the most important question is: Why this movement for indpendence? Are the pro-independence people just brushing aside history? Why are they now claiming otherwise?
I wrote a post some days ago (forget the exact words), where I thought that this indepenence movement was not based on cultural or historial differences or events, but on the aspirations of a few people for power. All they did was to play up on the emotions of sections of the Assamese on issues like step-motherly treatment, economically being sidelined etc. to keep the movement alive.
> (Is there any field where Assam is taking a leadership role?)
How about bandhs? :-). No, no, its not so bad. Today, we see many Assamese in leading roles throughout India, both in Govt. and in the private sectors. But, unfortunately, very few poistive things are happening in Assam itself.
--Ram
On 8/31/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Ram:
Thanks.
Couple of clarifications lest people mis-interpret my statement.
>Assamese are suffering from an acute inferiority complex.
>That is why they want to stay with India and are staying with India and will stay with India forever.
>That is why they never raised their voice to stay as an independent country at the time of India's independence.
>Even now hardly any Assamese are raising their voice for independence.
The above statement of mine is just a statement of the realty. This should not be interpreted to mean that I support (or object) Independence of Assam. I am simply saying that Assamese is not a warrior people with high National spirit or unity like the Nagas or other people and donot have the will, courage, spirit and love of freedom for independence. I agree that 'independence' is definitely a 'pipe dream' now (specially since we donot have any leader), but probably it was not a pipe dream when Assam was under the British till 1947. (I have my own analysis why Assam lost the freedom spirit after 1857 when Maniram Dewan was hanged). Today, whether we NEED independence or not is completely another subject.
The second realty is that, Assamese is not even an equal partner in the Indian Independence movement and in the Indian Democratic game today. If you read history, Assam was actually begging Gandhi and Nehru and the Congress, before 1947, so that Assam can stay with India. (Please! let us stay with you guys, ami apwnalwkor nkina golam hoi thakim). There was no movement for an Independent Assam as an alternative to joining Pakistan. Assam could have very well say it to the British, at that time: Please give us back our Assam that you took from us in 1826. But Assam did not. In fact the Assamese were so happy to be a part of India that Assamese wanted to forget the six hundred years of Ahom rule. Assamese novelist wrote novels 'Kwnw Khed Nai" (No Regret) ridiculing the six hundred years of Ahom rule. Eminent man of literature took comfort and wrote auto-biography titled : "Kongresor Kasioli Rodot". This is a realty.
Now having joined India on its own choice (or its own begging) we are complaining that India is treating Assam like a step child. Today the insurgency in Assam is happening as a negative outlet because of lack of leadership in Assam. It is not a positive movement for independence by any means.
Your statement that
"They very well know that their lot is in much better state staying with India than being independent."
Actually people of Assam donot have any choice, do they? Your statement also goes to show that people of Assam lack even the confidence in their own people. In other words it goes to prove my statement that they are suffering from a acute inferiority complex.
If one analyze the stream of events, one will come to the conclusion, that Assamese is a follower, a litikai to the mainland Indians. (Is there any field where Assam is taking a leadership role?) This is a realty.
That is and will be Assam's lot till we can create new and competent leaders. The earlier we realize this the better so that we can act.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ram Sarangapani
To: Barua25
Cc: mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net ; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Dear Barua,
>Even now hardly any Assamese are raising their voice for >independence.
Very few actually raised the voice of independence, and fewer still do so today. I think, in case for independence, most Assamese are actually being savvy and and realize what a pipe dream this venture really is. They very well know that their lot is in much better state staying with India than being independent. That is why, you will find very few voices for independence.
I doubt they are being 'litikai' at all.
Just my thoughts.
--Ram
On 8/28/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
I thought I never had to respond.
Assamese are suffereing from an acute inferiority complex.
That is why they want to stay with India and are staying with India and will stay with India forever.
That is why they never raised their voice to stay as an independent country at the time of India's independence.
Even now hardly any Assamese are raising their voice for independence.
Today Assamese are not even complaining against the GOI. They are simply saying that GOI is treating Assam like a step child. All Assam wants, is GOI to treat them as a 'legitimate child.' They dream of the day when Mai Bap GOI would treat them as their own child. That is all they want. That is the highest dream of an Assamese. As a result they wait for GOI's command to say what Assam would do so that they follow GOI like a 'litikai' and can please GOI.
Assamese could solve lot of their problems if simply they would stand up and voice in confidence.
They are suffering so much in inferiority complex, they even shy away to pronounce Oxom and are trying to say Asom so that their big brothers would not laugh. There is hardly any Assamese intellectual left in Assam. They even donot know their own history and culture.
Poor, pathetic 'litikai' Assamese with their 'tilika' minds.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Chan Mahanta
To: Barua25 ; mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Rajen:
>It is an Assamese problem of inferiority complex. Nobody will save the Assamese. We should stop blamimg the GOI.
*** Can you explain how or why it is an Assamese problem only, free of any connection or responsibility of GoI?
It is important to understand that, if your advice to 'stop blaming GoI' is to be taken seriously.
c
At 11:12 PM -0500 8/22/06, Barua25 wrote:
>Not just no- drinking/washing water-
>No solid waste management/garbage collection/disposal fit for a city
>No sewer/sewage treatment/ storm-water disposal
Why we don't hear any of these news in Kharkhowa News Papers? Why the news papers in are interested in news from mainland India instead?
It is an Assamese problem of inferiority complex. Nobody will save the Assamese. We should stop blamimg the GOI.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: mc mahant
To: cmahanta at charter.net
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Not just no- drinking/washing water-
No solid waste management/garbage collection/disposal fit for a city
No sewer/sewage treatment/ storm-water disposal
Raw sewage from so-called Septic tanks of 2 million people just dumped into the pure river.What happens to the health of Kamrup/Goalpara/Dhubri--and the whole nation -Bangladesh?
And Delhi's very own Refinery dumps daily 100 tons of Oil waste direct to river or through Guahati drain system/Bharalu and no Pollution Control Board dares to touch them.
Indian Science does not know/cares to know that 1 drop of oil spreads to a film of 100 sq mtr opaque for Oxygen.
No Oxygen-> no planktons->no fish->no Xihoo (River Porpoise).
Who Cares!
P.S.Thanks for the free publicity {MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement}
Let ignorance/bigotry/mediocrity thrive!!!
mm
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
To: assam at assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:55:48 -0500
>This whole notion of a city, with as large a population as Guahati,
>not having a municipal water supply system is absolutely atrocious,
>and that while sitting on the bank of the Brahmaputra.
>
>It is entirely a result of the dysfunctional desi-system of governance; which
>is unaccountable to anyone, made up of thoroughly incompetent people, and who
>do not have a clue as to how to tap into the abilities and skills of
>its own people.
>
>Nothing could change for the better under this system. Only option is
>to dump it and build a new society from its ashes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 6:48 AM -0700 8/22/06, Rajib Das wrote:
> >The big problem is there is no water under your land
> >in Guwahati. As there are areas, including my house,
> >where city water supply does not reach. Not that it
> >would help greatly. At least 3 to 4 months of a year,
> >it is the same problem.
> >
> >So the problem exists. The solution is not under your
> >plot of land. If Brahmaputra water can be
> >appropriately filtered and sold, that is a different
> >animal all together.
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>assam mailing list
>assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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