[Assam] MC Mahanta's bamboo-reinforcement
Rajib Das
rajibdas at yahoo.com
Sun Sep 3 00:31:39 EDT 2006
I agree - independence movements do not need a
historical basis for it. In this case, IMHO, the
historical basis is somewhat flimsy. It takes away
from the argument, if there is any!
--- Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Well there can be movement for independence without
> the support of >history based on the present state
> of affairs if the people are for >independence for
> whatever reasons
>
> If that then is the case, wouldn't such a movement
> have no basis? "Whatever reasons" suggests that if
> someone were to ask -'why do you want independence?'
> There could be any number of reasons -- just like
> the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an
> elephant.
>
> Ram:
> Please remember that your logic is like a double
> edged blade. For thw sake of arguments, you can
> apply your logic to the case of India's independence
> also. Don't you? India never was one country before,
> and why India wanted independence? Why India did not
> seek independence from the Moghols and why they
> wanted independence from the British. To use your
> words, There could be any number of reasons -- just
> like the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an
> elephant.
>
> Logically, any group of people, has a birth right to
> seek independent if they want to. For this they
> will have to be united in spirit, be willing to
> fight and die for their freedom. Whether they can
> achieve independence or not is a separate issue.
>
> If tomorrow Quebec want to be independent from
> Canada, or Kerela want to be independent from India,
> they do not need any historical basis. But tehy will
> have to have the political will for that.
> Independence will not be given to them on a gold
> plate. They will have to get it by force.
> RB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ram Sarangapani
> To: Barua25
> Cc: mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net ;
> assam at assamnet.org
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's
> bamboo-reinforcement
>
>
> Barua,
>
> >Are you sure all the people of Assam either for
> or against independence?
>
> All I said was, it would be doubtful to find
> people who are ambivalent on this issue.
>
> >Many people may not support independence simply
> because at present they >may not see anything to
> support.
>
> That is an interesting way to put it. It suggests
> that people may actually support independence ONLY
> when they see some kind of benefit (be it material
> or something else). If they were FORCED to, then
> they would all fall in line and then support an
> independence movement?
>
> >Well there can be movement for independence
> without the support of >history based on the present
> state of affairs if the people are for >independence
> for whatver reasons
>
> If that then is the case, wouldn't such a movement
> have no basis? "Whatever reasons" suggests that if
> someone were to ask -'why do you want independence?'
> There could be any number of reasons -- just like
> the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an
> elephant.
>
> >There are cultural and historical differences.
> That is the crux of the problem. >History, language,
> culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are
> different than >the rest of the Indians.
>
> Other than some states in the North, most other
> states in India have these differences. Orissa
> borders W Bengal and Andhra - all three states have
> these differences. Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka,
> Goa, and Kerala are also likewise different. Punjab
> is different. I see only 3 or 4 states close enough
> :MP, UP, Bihar, and that other new state.
> Even the states (seven sisters?) are as far apart
> from each other - culturally, language, food etc.
> The common strings are border, currency and maybe
> religion among some of them.
>
> I agree there are some differences in history. But
> the history of northern and southern states are also
> different. The Mugals barely, just barely touched
> the South (Hyderabad) and before that North India
> and South India were like 2 separate countries.
>
> >However, Assam is at present without any cultural
> or political leader to >make things right, and
> nobody is protesting openly.
>
> You may have a point there. I think there is a lot
> of political apathy present. People may be
> interested only in getting the best out of a bad
> situation.
> There seem to be some positive signs. The Govt.
> has now fired some teacher (and doctors may be next)
> for securing jobs on fake documents etc. The
> Education minister conducted surprise raids in
> schools and fired even some directors .
>
> --Ram
>
>
> So, I submit, that cannot be of any overriding
> significance.
>
>
> On 8/31/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >How can you be in the middle? I doubt, if one
> could find anyone (Assamese) who is neither here nor
> there :-)
>
> Are you sure all the people of Assam either for
> or against independence? Many people may not
> support independence simply because at present they
> may not see anything to support. It does not mean
> however that all those people are against
> independence of Assam.
>
> >I was not aware of this.
>
> This is basic elementary history stuff which all
> people of Assam should know.
>
> >But if this the case, then the most important
> question is: Why this movement for independence?
> Are the pro->independence people just brushing aside
> history? Why are they now claiming otherwise?
>
> Well there can be movement for independence
> without the support of history based on the present
> state of affairs if the people are for independence
> for whatver reasons. But I don't see any movement on
> this basis. I don't see any discussions or debates
> on this in a democratic process. Do you see any? Any
> independence movement based on Assam's past history
> since Yandabu Xondhi is rather weak now and will get
> weaker everyday, unlike that of the Nagas who has a
> stronger claim and who has been fighting for their
> independence since 1940s. (Please note that we
> Assamese never supported the independence movement
> of the Nagas and rather supported the GOI in
> supressing the Nagas, BTW).
>
> >I thought that this independence movement was
> not based on cultural or historical differences or
> events, but on the >aspirations of a few people for
> power.
>
> I think you are wrong again. There are cultural
> and historical differences. That is the crux of the
> problem. History, language, culture, dress, food,
> religion - Assamese are different than the rest of
> the Indians. However, in Assam there is a conflict
> between the Aryan and Mongoloid culture. Since
> independence and before, caste Hindu Assamese
> intellectuals are pulling towards Pan Indian Hindu
> culture undermining much of the Mongoloid culture
> and diluting much of the Assamese original culture.
> The attempt to abolish the name 'Assam' (which is
> an Assamese word derived from the word 'Shyam' which
> is based on original Tai-Ahom source) is a latest
> case in point angainst the supression of the
> Mongolid culture. However, Assam is at present
> without any cultural or political leader to make
> things right, and nobody is protesting openly.
> However all these pent up anger will lead Assam into
> much darker future where all ethnic groups fighting
> against each other.
>
> RB
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ram Sarangapani
> To: Barua25
> Cc: mc mahant ; cmahanta at charter.net ;
> assam at assamnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's
> bamboo-reinforcement
>
>
> Dear Barua,
>
=== message truncated ===>
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