[Assam] Answers for Chitta-II

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da & Chitta,

This is getting more interesting by the second. But I will let Chitta fend
for himself (and has ably done so this far).

Just wanted to touch  on a small part, and then I will butt out.

>So why don't YOU raise your voice to put an end to that debate, by >calling
for a free >and fair referendum after a period of unfettered and >informed
public debate and >discussion? With the highly revered >Election Commission
with its stellar record  at >hand to guarantee the >fairness of an outcome,
what seems to be the problem :-)?

Calls for a referundum are a common ploy by insurgents and those who think
they are fighting for some noble cause. What they really want to do is to
put the onus on the country. Its like saying - 'prove that I'am wrong'. Such
a ref. would be great for insurgents - it shows that at last someone is
paying attention to them, and also if such a thing is ever held, all they
have to do is brandish their weapons, kill some who dare to stand up, and
the rest of the people will fall in line and vote for the cause (or so they
hope). The last thing anyone will see is a 'free & fair' ref.

You see it in Kashmir, and you see it in Assam.
Now, why should a country try to prove anything to a group of insurgents,
who possess only stolen money and guns (but no principles). And further, why
should the country want to do that when

(a) its against its constitution to give independence to some portion just
because a group of wannabes want it

((b) No govt. in the state or Center has the right to give in to such a ref.
as Assam is NOT their's to give away to insurgents.
All Assamese want is that the Govt. fulfill its obligations to the state
(which it hasn't done effectively for the past so many years). And this does
not tantamount to seeking independence.

(c) And lastly, and more importantly, most people in the state want to
remain a part of India.

--Ram








On 2/9/07, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  Hi C:
>
>
> I changed the subject right back. "The Minority Assamese" smacks of a
> persecution complex based on ethnic,linguistic or cultural identity.  For
> people like you or I, world-citizens, that would be a rather unbecoming
> complaint. We ought to pursue more relevant and concrete issues.
>
>
> No I don't think 'Answers for Chitta ' is at all personal. We have had
> many such
> discourses in assamnet in the past. But if it still bothers you, you are
> welcome to change it to something different. But let us not get into such
> things as Assamese ethnic persecution complex. We, the caste- Assamese, have
> little room to complain about that, if you know what I mean.
>
>
> Allow me to clarify a few of your misconceptions, before we get back to
> your questions. And I will continue to resort to cutting and pasting the
> questions
> to post my response, so that the reader, if there is any, can follow the
> context; in spite of your fears about it appearing too argumentative. I have
> no problems with that, if YOU don't.
>
>
>
>
>
> >Bottom line is Mahanta da just because of I am based
>
> >in Perth or you know my family or my immediate background ,
>
>
>
>
> *** I don't know anything about you or yours. I don't need to. And I never
> would have asked the question, had you NOT prefaced your questions with:
>
>
>         But not all of them-not the ones I know of.* As far as my
> relatives,*
> *        friends, parents,brothers, numerous cousins spread all*
> *        over Assam are concerned (and if you consider them "my own*
> *        people"),freedom from India is not much of an issue for them.*
>
>
> I don't take issue with your bringing your kin into the equation. They are
> the people we know and understand most. However, when you or I extend the
> lessons learnt from that to apply all over Assam, or to the vast majority of
> Assam as you do, then we must examine the validity of the premise. Whether
> what you and your kin represent is the NORM for the rest of Assam?
>
>
> Do you still see my inquiry therefore  an illogical or irrelevant one,
> designed to obfuscate as you insinuate?
>
>
> Now, should you not feel trapped by this request, you can do it , without
> divulging specific personal details, like:
>
>
>
>
>         Grandparents from Lower Assam, rural, subsistence farmers
>         with adequate arable land ( or landless sharecroppers, or scions
>         of Zamindars, or school teacher in British Assam -- so on and so
>         forth)
>
>
>         Father, one of six siblings, local high school topper, MSc GU,
>         IAS. Mother, daughter of High Ct clerk. Or Father BSc, Xorobhwg
> College,
>         Local High School teacher, mother daughter of local Mahajan.
>         Grew up in thatched hut, but now have poka-ghor, owns a motor
> scooter.
>         So on and so forth.
>
>
>         I worked hard, studies at distant High School with a Christian
> Saint's
>         name, three stars at HS, IIT-Mumbai in Comp. Science, now at
> Perth.
>         Three Siblings--a doctor, a college teacher and a businessman.
>         Twenty two cousins ( by last count), spanning from aspiring IAS to
>         AEC Engineer to Wineshop Owner to rice-farmers to a black-sheep in
> the
>         ULFA.  So on and so forth.
>
>
> Not very hard, is it? But it will give US some clues to why you are
> COMFORTABLE with the status quo of Assam governance under Indian controls.
> It will also tell us whether the lessons learned from YOUR kins'
> circumstances could be applied to the rest of Assam that you so effortlessly
> did, as a premise to your questions.
>
>
>
>
> *** You brought up a whole lot of other issues too that I could have a
> field day answering :-). But time is short. So let me take a stab at your
> re-phrased ACE question, even though to address it in isolation, without
> attempting to understand what 'independence' means is at best a silly
> endeavor. But I know why it bothers you to delve into the issues associated
> with 'independence'. Unfortunately such attempts by Assam's intelligentsia
> or its well wishers to avoid looking at the real issues underlying the
> demand or wish for independence would not lead to a solution. It will merely
> help perpetuate the conflict that besets Assam. The choice is yours. You can
> run from the issues all you want, but you cannot hide.   So I hope you as a
> well wisher of Assam, who has seen better, would want to apply the lessons
> learnt, to contribute towards betterment of  Assam's lot instead of helping
> perpetuate what is killing it.
>
>
>
>
> > Because this was the crux of my
> >question! WHERE is the cry for independence in Assam?
>
>
> For one, it appears to me that ULFA raises it. Did I misread it?
>
>
> I know, I know  --- but THEY don't represent Assam's aspirations right?
> Unlike your kin do :-)?
>
>
> You may be right. Who am I to question that?
>
>
> So why don't YOU raise your voice to put an end to that debate, by calling
> for a free and fair referendum after a period of unfettered and informed
> public debate and discussion? With the highly revered Election Commission
> with its stellar record  at hand to guarantee the fairness of an outcome,
> what seems to be the problem :-)?
>
>
> More later.
>
>
> m-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 2:31 AM -0800 2/9/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
>
> Hello Mahanta da
>
> I changed the subject matter to "The Minority
>
> Assamese" as "Answer to Chitta" was sounding too
> personal and intent is also to attract more audience
> including those who have "failed" before me as every
> one would like to be satiated by your reply (the final
> one). This is another thing that many people would any
> way open a mail from Chan Mahanta to read it
> surreptitiously.
>
> Thanks for your attempt to reply and for opening on to
> me a deluge of thoughts and questions in an attempt to
> drown me, whilst I had only one very specific question
> like "Gabbar Singh's kitne aadmi the" for you.
>
> The question was whether you believe or not that you
> are in minority league?
>
> Yes of course-I did not expect short crisp reply. But
> like a sorcerer you were trying to lead me away from
> my quest with your wizardry of words. Still I will
> steer clear and lead you to my specific query. I will
> also resort to cut, paste and dissect style reply you
> so often apply to counter thoughts and ideas that you
> don't prescribe to, though I don't find it comfortable
> as it looks too argumentative. (Now Mahanta da-do not
> respond to this-otherwise it will just get
> protracted).
>
> **Is it an uniquely  Assamese condition? That your
> people and mine, are so uniquely apathetic that they
> will soon forget thus perhaps are deserving  of what
> they get?
>
> We all know guilty going unpunished is not at all
> uniquely Assamese condition. You can bomb the
> parliament of India and still escape hang man's noose.
> I admit situation is very bad in India.
> But I for the time being agree with your tacit
> reasoning in the question you posed that it is an
> Indian ill. But will it go away if Assam is free from
> India? Because USA (United States of Assam) will run
> under the same constrains and set up as those of India
> which resulted that pathetic condition at the very
> first place.
> But don't you think this lax attitude has proved to be
> beneficial to some of the indigenous people of our
> state also? Because you can bomb, kill, extort but
> still get condoned to lead a comfortable life with an
> allowance to keep your AK-47 if you attend one of
> those surrender ceremonies and if your committed all
> those crimes purportedly for a cause for autonomy or
> secession. You surely will agree!! I will come to that
> later.
>
>
> **Now we are in complicated territory, getting ahead
> of ourselves. To understand these issues we will have
> to take a few steps back and take a look at a larger
> context :
>
> Mahanta da here you are digressing. All I wanted to
> know was who are "your people" who are yearning for
> freedom? Any answer like all Assamese people, all
> Assamese speaking people, people from Brahmaputra
> valley, people who have never seen Dispur-any thing
> would have been satisfying. But you skipped –because I
> think you are facing difficulty in finding them.
>
> **So WHY independence then? What is wrong with Indian
> rule -- that you, your kin and your friends are
> comfortable with, and I will have to guess, prospered
> from?
> Tricky-I will tackle this in two parts.
>
> **So WHY independence then?
> Here you got it wrong Mahanta da? I caught your
> Googly. I have to stop you here because you are basing
> your logic on the premise that it is a GIVEN that
> there is cry for independence in Assam. I replace your
> WHY with WHERE. Because this was the crux of my
> question! WHERE is the cry for independence in Assam?
> Where Mahanta da? Which section? Which community?
>
> Which portion of Assam-lets go to most backward
> district of Assam-Dhemaji? Baska? Chirang? Or in
> Bodoland where Mr Mohilary has revealed his grand plan
> of having nothing to do with Assam and Assamese in
> next 20 years?   You have to be specific here Mahanta
> da. You will have to answer my 95% poll result query,
>
> then only you can go from where to why.
>
> **What is wrong with Indian rule -- that you, your kin
> and your friends are comfortable with, and I will have
> to guess, prospered from?
> You guessed it wrong-Mahanta da. Just because I come
> from Guwahati or Bongaigaon does not mean everything
> is fine with every one I know of. Most of my childhood
> friends and numerous of my cousins are far from
> prosperous and are still struggling. May be you would
> not have hazarded a guess about my kith and kin's
> prosperity had my title been Pegu or Padum instead of
> Pathak. Time is changing Mahanta da-don't go by
> surnames in Assam nowadays.
>
> **Now we are in even more complicated territory. And
> here it will be helpful to know a little more about
> you,  your kins' and friends' circumstances. I am not
> seeking personal info. Just give us a general
> introduction, about you, your parents, your
> grand-parents.  We will have to look at this data in
> relation to the overall condition of the people of
> Assam and see if you are typical or the exception.
>
> This was interesting-you can be funny sometimes. How
> can I give you "impersonal" introduction about my
> parents, grandparents? I will give my introduction to
> you separately Mahanta da. And don't be surprised if I
> am related to you-knowing fully well how small
> different Assamese communities are.
>
> But for the purpose of this debate, I think you don't
> need to look at my "family data". I told you on my
> earlier post that you can discount my "ongohi bongohi"
> to be true representative of Assamese people. At this
> stage let us not give them any benefit of doubt and
> let them all be classed as privileged exception not
> meriting to be representative of people of
> Assam-discounting the fact that many my cousins are
> without any job whose standard weapon to ward off
> embarrassment is "business kori asu" reply; numerous
> of my cousins and families from lower Assam are
> subjected to all kinds of subtle harassment and
> disadvantages in their newly carved out home territory
> of BTC districts for not being on winning side and
> discounting the ….I will stop here least it becomes
> too personal and sounds parochial.
> So can we get back to those people who are yearning
> for independence-I do not loose track easily.
>
> **And if you are the exception, WHAT was it that has
> led to you and your kins' escape from where the rest
> find themselves in. If it is  hereditary traits or
> sheer hard work and individual enterprise or that zeal
> to pull yourselves up by the boot-straps that Indian
> governance afforded you and which you would not want
> to swap or lose -- for yourselves or for other
> aspirants for that good life. We will need to
> determine HOW you got ahead in-spite of what those
> others so decry and want to change--namely Indian
> governance and Indian control of Assam's future.
>
> Frankly speaking I did not quite understand what you
> wanted to say here. Least you misunderstand this as a
> case of selective non receptiveness, I will
> nevertheless attempt a reply. If I am off the track,
> you will please save me from ridicule by rephrasing
> your question.
> By escape I suppose you mean this state of relative
> privilege where one can take some time off to connect
> to internet to talk about distant Assam?
> Clarification-not all my kith and kin have made this
> great escape. But neither they are decrying and
> wanting to change Indian control over Assam's future
> for being deprived of this. For they can not afford to
> take that perilous journey having paid the price for
> being so devoted to a cause during eighty's agitation.
> As you said they want better education for their
> children-and this they can not get inside camps in
> Myanmar, Bhutan or Bangladesh.
> But then they are my relatives, who might fail on data
> analysis, so I reiterate, leave them aside and please
> go through the 4 categories I listed on my first post.
>
> Then please attempt a reply-preferably in "Ha" or
> "Na". No I don't dread a long reply from you, we can
> get to that after your short "Ha" or "Na" reply also.
>
> Bottom line is Mahanta da just because of I am based
> in Perth or you know my family or my immediate
>
> background , it will be very difficult for you
>
> classify all of my "kith and kin" back in Assam into a
> single category as we represent all the shades and
> come in huge number. In today's Assam you can not make
> the mistake of classifying a guy as unprivileged  or
> disadvantaged just because he say he hails of from
> Dhudhnoi , Bismuri or Laimekuri or just because you
> don't have a clue about his linage.
>
> I wait not for your response to all I have written but
> to this this single query-whether seeing present state
> of Assam and Assamese, do you consider yourself to be
> part of the minority believer or not?
>
> Once you say yes or no-we will follow up after that.
>
> Best regards and have a nice weekend.
>
> Chittaranjan
>
> --- Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Chitta:
> >
> > Here I will attempt to address your queries, one at
> > a time.
> >
> > You seem to be quite conversant about the role of
> > CISF. Perhaps you are an OIL or ONGC employee?
> >
> >
> > >  >But here it was a case of sheer ego boosting
> > exercise.
> > >CRPk dekhi uthil gaa, CISFe bule muku khaa. The
> > >officer must be punished.
> >
> > *** What you are speaking of here is an
> > environment of anarchy. When the ranks of the
> > keepers of the peace and the upholder of the rule
> > of law indulge in such behavior, it means only
> > one thing: There is NO deterrence. They can do
> > whatever they wish to--obviously with impunity,
> > as thousands of episodes of fake-encounter
> > killings, killings in detention, disappearance
> > after arrests amply illustrate.
> >
> > >  >But no body is going to
> > >follow it up in Assam-so may be he will end up
> > getting
> > >secretly transferred to some oil installation in
> > >Ankleswar basin. Are we in a position to do
> > something
> > >to force authorities punish such high handed
> > arrogant
> > >officials?
> >
> > *** Yours is a typically lament here. Let us
> > examine it and its underlying assumptions and
> > implications:
> >
> > Is it an uniquely  Assamese condition? That your
> > people and mine, are so uniquely apathetic that
> > they will soon forget thus perhaps are deserving
> > of what they get?
> >
> > I make the question purposely provocative,
> > because I have seen it any number of times
> > presented here, exactly with such  implications.
> > And I will follow up, after I hear from you on
> > that. There is a whole lot more to it than meets
> > the eye. I wished you and others were aware of
> > them. But I also know how you never were
> > conditioned to ask the questions and look deeper
> > to get at the bottom of these things. I hope your
> > participation in Assamnet will change that :-).
> >
> >
> > >  >you refuted Ram da's
> > >anguished declaration that you are always the "fair
> > >and balanced" by saying that your partisanship lies
> > >with "my people's" aspiration of "running their
> > lives
> > >as they say fit".
> >
> > *** Not exactly. I don't buy the pithy arguments
> > that we have to be 'balanced' - to distribute
> > guilt all across the board since no-one is
> > blameless and thus 'upai-nai aaru'. There is such
> > a thing as a degree of guilt, of responsibility.
> > That is why I get so sarcastic with those who
> > wear the mantle of 'fair-and-balanced' to paint a
> > picture of insipid greys that obliterate the
> > whites and blacks of the picture. And I do not
> > hesitate to point out why it could be a
> > politically motivated attempt to shield the
> > guilty, the responsible. That is why I make no
> > apologies for my partisanship about Assam's
> > rights. I don't go about waving that flag of the
> > 'fair-and-balanced', instead I make the arguments
> > I do to explain my stance.
> >
> >
> >
> > >  >Respecting your siding and at the same time
> > letting
> > >you know that my heart also lies with the
> > aspiration
> > >of those same people for a "better life", may I ask
> > >you the following small question?
> >
> >
> > *** I know you do. I also know that even those
> > who you might not agree with your stance about
>
> > how to achieve them hold the same aspirations --
> > of having a roof over their heads, three square
> > meals a day, an opportunity to send their
> > children to a school where they can get an
> > education, a minimum amount of health care so
>
> > that they don't have to die premature deaths from
> > diseases that ought not kill any more. In that we
> > are on common ground.
> >
> >
> > >  >Background
> > >By my people you must be referring to Assamese
> > people
> > >and by "running their lives as they say fit" you
> > must
> > >be meaning an independent Assam. Are the Assamese
> > >people really aspiring to be free or independent
> > from
> > >India? Yes-some are. But not all of them-not the
> > ones
> > >I know of. As far as my relatives, friends,
> > parents,
> > >brothers, numerous cousins spread all over Assam
> > are
> > >concerned (and if you consider them "my own
> > people"),
> > >freedom from India is not much of an issue for
> > them.
> >
> >
> > *** Now we are in complicated territory, getting
> > ahead of ourselves. To understand these issues we
> > will have to take a few steps back and take a
> > look at a larger context :
> >
> > WHY is it that SOME in Assam want independence or
> > sovereignty or the right to determine the way to
> > achieve what you and the others -- all-  do? Is
> > independence some kind of a divine decree, a
> > 'bor' which will magically transform Assam from
> > its misery to that shining land?
> >
> > Obviously not, I am sure you will agree.
> >
> > So WHY independence then? What is wrong with
> > Indian rule -- that you, your kin and your
> > friends are comfortable with, and I will have to
> > guess, prospered from?
> >
> > Now we are in even more complicated territory.
> > And here it will be helpful to know a little more
> > about you,  your kins' and friends'
> > circumstances. I am not seeking personal info.
> > Just give us a general introduction, about you,
> > your parents, your grand-parents.  We will have
> > to look at this data in relation to the overall
> > condition of the people of Assam and see if you
> > are typical or the exception. And if you are the
> > exception, WHAT was it that has led to you and
> > your kins' escape from where the rest find
> > themselves in. If it is  hereditary traits or
> > sheer hard work and individual enterprise or that
> > zeal to pull yourselves up by the boot-straps
> > that Indian governance afforded you and which you
> > would not want to swap or lose -- for yourselves
> > or for other aspirants for that good life. We
> > will need to determine HOW you got ahead in-spite
> > of what those others so decry and want to
> > change--namely Indian governance and Indian
> > control of Assam's future.
> >
> > We will follow up on these and other points after we
> > hear  from you.
> >
> > Until then.
> >
> > m-da
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 2:29 AM -0800 2/7/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
> > >Dear Shri Mahanta da
> > >Warm up
> > >Thanks for the insight on the unfortunate Galeki
> > >incidence. Yes you are right-CISF is meant to be
> > >checking security passes and stuff like oil tanker
> > >permits at the industrial installation gates,
> > loading
> > >bays etc. It was clearly a case of overstepping
> > their
> > >boundaries.
> > >Somebody was asking-why they are given guns? Till
> > >recently many of them were having only sticks. But
> > now
> > >they are guarding all the vital oil/gas/nuclear
> > >installations other places like Akshardham,
> > >parliament, airports etc and role includes warding
> > off
> > >terrorist attacks also. So guns are justified and
> > so
> > >would have been the killing had the shots been
> > aimed
> > >at some saboteur climbing a high security wall of
> > an
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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