[Assam] A lighter topic
Alpana B. Sarangapani
absarangapani at hotmail.com
Fri Jun 1 11:22:18 EDT 2007
Enjoy the pictures of these animals....just look at the cat and the color of the frog!
“In order to make spiritual progress you must be patient like a tree and humble like a blade of grass”
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:12:40 -0500To: assamrs at gmail.com; cmahanta at charter.netFrom: cmahanta at charter.netCC: umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu; assam at assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
All that is fine.
Conflicts arise from many different reasons. Economics is one. But it does not somehow make it
out-of-bounds for resolution thru a political process , with adequate governmental response to the issues, when they begin to surface. That would prevent it from degenerating into violent protests, like it has in Rajasthan, like it did in Assam nearly thirty years ago. Other examples are well detailed in Mohan Guruswamy's Terminating with Extreme Prejudice! forwarded by mcm this morning.
The fact is that the UNACCOUNTABLE Indian govt. with democratic pretensions, is little more than a fiefdom of powerful groups and entrenched interests, who REFUSE to address these conflicts when they begin to appear, let them fester, and when violence erupts, sends out the army to shoot them down. Indian courts, long dysfunctional and corrupt to the core, further bogged down by an incredible 30 year back log, are thoroughly useless as a means of conflict resolution to the point that Indian intelligentsia does not even think of it as a possible INSTITUTION of DEMOCRACY at their disposal: A fact demonstrated in this forum routinely by some of the country's most educated and informed, including High-court advocates, and NRAs living in developed democracies for decades.
Poverty and paucity of resources as an excuse for an absence of the attitude of responsiveness to constituents' concerns and an absence of functioning conflict resolution institutions in what is advertised as a democracy, does NOT FLY. And to suggest that these conflicts can turn violent leading to military or police firings and killing of their own people by the dozens at a time, routinely, BECAUSE India is DEMOCRATIC is an appalling spin Ram . You are doing a disservice to your fellow Indians by telling them such bizarre stories about what a democracy is :-).
At 8:31 AM -0600 6/1/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>*** That is about the most convoluted explanation of democracy and egregious spin on India's behavior
>I have heard so far Ram.
I am trying to differentiate here: The Gujars and the Meenas are clashing in Rajasthan - basically one group does not want the other to get ST status (while they, themselves should). Without going into the details who should and who shouldn't, the basic underpinning of this whole this is Economics.
Neither the Gujars or the Meenas (IMHO) would be so concerned of their Scheduled Tribe Status if there were jobs and other resources aplenty. After all - the 6th Schedule is only in the Constitution - and whether it is or isn't the Gujars and the Meenas will remain whatever they have been - Tribes or non-Tribes. So, why the big rushing need to be included in the 6th - Jobs and oppturnities.
A mjor cause to most of India's problems (including ULFA ) can be traced to economics, wants and needs, as opposed to "we are separate cultural identity" argument per se. I would even go a bit further - sometimes even "demands" for the preservation cultural identities ties back to economics. Hence, such cultural identities prove to be a boon - hence, Marathis/Bodos/Assamese or in this case Gujars or Meenas form numbers to jostle for better economic benefits. The other thing to fact is political power - ie. politicians play one group against the other for such power.
On 6/1/07, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>The right to bandhs, hartals, strikes are possible in India because its a democracy and they happen >because there is NOT enough to go around. It does not happen in the US because most of the most >common things have already been met.
*** That is about the most convoluted explanation of democracy and egregious spin on India's behavior I have heard so far Ram.
At 10:34 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
Oh! I forgot, C'da
LA riots (after the OJ Simpson thing), NY Black out . maybe I am forgetting a few.
But you are right, the US has far fewer of such riots than India or most of the up & coming economies do. And that can be attributed, in general, to the limited resources, and too many people these countries have.
If some of the countries have democracies, there are demonstrations, protests etc - which often go haywire. If they are NOT democratic then they can be quelled swiftly.
The right to bandhs, hartals, strikes are possible in India because its a democracy and they happen because there is NOT enough to go around. It does not happen in the US because most of the most common things have already been met.
On 5/31/07, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to expand on, I am sure).
*** Yes, but we are comparing apples and oranges.
** It was case of enforcement of a court order. No one was killed if I am not mistaken.
*** It was a case of criminal kidnapping.
*** Again a criminal case of confinement and refusal to submit to a court order, leading to a police/paramiltary raid, to defy which the inmates of the commune committed mass suicide.
None of these were anything akin to political /social disaffections , ignored by authorities, leading to demonstrations that turned into rioting terminated by military /police firing against their OWN PEOPLE.
At 8:29 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
Just to butt in here a bit.
In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to expand on, I am sure).
In the last two, (it wasn't the US Army) but paramil. forces - people got killed
On 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com> wrote:
Still waiting to hear what happens in similar situations in US of A - say like if some African Americans were to protest again over Hurricane Katrina? Maybe we should learn and implement similar policies here.
Do they get 125 yrs jail...or Guantanamo Bay?.......or there's political settlement?
----- Original Message ----From: umesh sharma < jaipurschool at yahoo.com>To: SANDIP DUTTA < pseude at yahoo.com>; Chan Mahanta < cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.orgSent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:56:42 PMSubject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riotshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujarit confirms my opinion that Gujjars are not that backward -- in comparison to the tribes /castes who are in SC ST category -- nobody oppresses them - but they are maig this demand after upper caste have got 10% reservation in Rajasthan and Jats -another dominant warrior caste (rules Alwar and Haryana) has been included in OBC category by former Congress govt. of RajasthanUmeshSANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com> wrote:
"Think deeper" - he he!
How much deep info did you have about Meenas, Gujjars etc in Rajasthan? - before you read the BBC report?
And you already decided it was a legitimate demand?
BTW, you didnt answer what happens in the US of A.
----- Original Message ----From: Chan Mahanta < cmahanta at charter.net>To: SANDIP DUTTA < pseude at yahoo.com>; Chandan Mahanta < cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.orgSent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:10:05 PMSubject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
You need to to think a little DEEPER!
WHY did RIOTING have to take place to begin with? Did these people wake up one fine morning and decided, : Heck, things are dull, let us go burn some buses today and cut-off policemen's limbs?
Think about it and come back with your questions again.
At 6:06 AM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Hello Sondon Da,
As far as I understand, police and RAF are meant to maintain law & order and prevent rioters getting out of hand. Thats their job. Army is called in only when situation gets out of control. Same approach is applied everywhere. Local Admin calls in the army. In this case, Rajasthan police had no experience handling anything of this kind in the last many decades.
May we know what approach is taken towards rioters who use violence as a form of protest and then try justifying it - in the worlds greatest demokrasy - your home, the United EStates of Amrika? I mean people who damage govt. property, possibly kill and maim others and try to undermine state authority?
----- Original Message ----From: Chandan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net >To: assam at assamnet.orgSent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:59:35 AMSubject: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
Chandan Mahanta saw this story on the BBC News website and thought youshould see it.** Message **This is typical of the Indian state's conflict resolution program, which has not changed in sixty years after freedom.** Army deployed after India riots **Troops are deployed in India's Rajasthan state after 14 people are killed in clashes over government job quotas.< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm >** BBC Daily E-mail **Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, allin one daily e-mail< http://www.bbc.co.uk/email >** Disclaimer **The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender have been verified.If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm_______________________________________________assam mailing listassam at assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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Umesh SharmaWashington D.C.1-202-215-4328 [Cell]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
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