[Assam] A lighter topic

Fri Jun 1 11:59:35 EDT 2007

Lovely Alpana.

At 10:22 AM -0500 6/1/07, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote:
><http://blog.webshots.com/?p=626>http://blog.webshots.com/?p=626
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>Enjoy the pictures of these animals....just look at the cat and the 
>color of the frog!
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>"In order to make spiritual progress you must be patient like a tree 
>and humble like a blade of grass"
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>- Lakshmana
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>Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:12:40 -0500
>To: assamrs at gmail.com; cmahanta at charter.net
>From: cmahanta at charter.net
>CC: umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu; assam at assamnet.org
>Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
>
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>Ram:
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>All that is fine.
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>Conflicts arise from many different reasons. Economics is one.  But 
>it does not somehow make it
>out-of-bounds for resolution thru a political process , with 
>adequate governmental response to the issues, when they begin to 
>surface. That would prevent it from  degenerating into violent 
>protests, like it has in Rajasthan, like it did in Assam nearly 
>thirty years ago. Other examples are well detailed in Mohan 
>Guruswamy's  Terminating with Extreme Prejudice! forwarded by mcm 
>this morning.
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>The fact is that the UNACCOUNTABLE  Indian govt. with democratic 
>pretensions, is little more than a fiefdom of powerful groups and 
>entrenched interests, who REFUSE to address these conflicts when 
>they begin to appear, let them fester, and when violence erupts, 
>sends out the army to shoot them down. Indian courts, long 
>dysfunctional and corrupt to the core, further bogged down  by an 
>incredible 30 year back log, are thoroughly useless as a means of 
>conflict resolution to the point that Indian intelligentsia does not 
>even think of it as a possible INSTITUTION of DEMOCRACY at their 
>disposal: A fact demonstrated in this forum routinely by some of the 
>country's most educated and informed, including High-court 
>advocates, and NRAs living in developed democracies for decades.
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>Poverty and paucity of resources as an excuse for an absence of  the 
>attitude of responsiveness  to constituents' concerns and an absence 
>of functioning conflict resolution institutions in what is 
>advertised as a democracy,  does NOT FLY. And to suggest that these 
>conflicts can turn violent leading to military or police firings and 
>killing of their own people by the dozens at a time, routinely, 
>BECAUSE India is DEMOCRATIC is an appalling spin Ram . You are doing 
>a disservice to your fellow Indians by telling them such bizarre 
>stories about what a democracy is :-).
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>c-da
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>At 8:31 AM -0600 6/1/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
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>C'da
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>  >*** That is about the most convoluted explanation of democracy and 
>egregious spin on India's behavior
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>  >I have heard  so far Ram.
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>I am trying to differentiate here: The Gujars and the Meenas are 
>clashing in Rajasthan - basically one group does not want the other 
>to get ST status (while they, themselves should). Without going into 
>the details who should and who shouldn't, the basic underpinning of 
>this whole this is Economics.
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>Neither the Gujars or the Meenas (IMHO) would be so concerned of 
>their Scheduled Tribe Status if there were jobs and other resources 
>aplenty. After all - the 6th Schedule is only in the Constitution - 
>and whether it is or isn't the Gujars and the Meenas will remain 
>whatever they have been  - Tribes or non-Tribes. So, why the big 
>rushing need to be included in the 6th - Jobs and oppturnities.
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>A mjor cause to most of India's problems (including ULFA ) can be 
>traced to economics, wants and needs, as opposed to "we are separate 
>cultural identity" argument per se. I would even go a bit further - 
>sometimes even "demands" for the preservation cultural identities 
>ties back to economics. Hence, such cultural identities prove to be 
>a boon - hence, Marathis/Bodos/Assamese or in this case Gujars or 
>Meenas form numbers to jostle for better economic benefits. The 
>other thing to fact is political power - ie. politicians play one 
>group against the other for such power.
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>--Ram
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>On 6/1/07, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
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>  >The right to bandhs, hartals, strikes are possible in India 
>because its a democracy and they happen >because there is NOT enough 
>to go around. It does  not happen in the US because most of the 
>most >common things have already been met.
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>*** That is about the most convoluted explanation of democracy and 
>egregious spin on India's behavior I have heard  so far Ram.
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>At 10:34 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
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>Oh! I forgot, C'da
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>LA riots (after the OJ Simpson thing), NY Black  out . maybe I am 
>forgetting a few.
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>But you are right, the US has far fewer of such riots than India or 
>most of the up & coming economies do.  And that can be attributed, 
>in general, to the limited resources, and too many people these 
>countries have.
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>If some of the countries have democracies, there are demonstrations, 
>protests etc - which often go haywire. If they are NOT democratic 
>then they can be quelled swiftly.
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>The right to bandhs, hartals, strikes are possible in India because 
>its a democracy and they happen because there is NOT enough to go 
>around. It does  not happen in the US because most of the most 
>common things have already been met.
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>--Ram
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>On 5/31/07, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
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>  >In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to 
>expand on, I am sure).
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>*** Yes, but we are comparing apples and oranges.
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>  >Elian Gonzalez
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>** It was case of enforcement of a court order. No one was killed if 
>I am not mistaken.
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>  >Ruby Ridge
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>*** It was a case of criminal kidnapping.
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>  >David Koresh
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>*** Again a criminal case of confinement and refusal to submit to a 
>court order, leading to a police/paramiltary raid, to defy which the 
>inmates of the commune committed mass suicide.
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>None of these were anything akin to political /social disaffections 
>, ignored by authorities, leading to demonstrations that turned into 
>rioting terminated by military /police firing against their OWN 
>PEOPLE.
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>At 8:29 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
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>Just to butt in here a bit.
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>In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to 
>expand on, I am sure).
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>Elian Gonzalez
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>Ruby Ridge
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>David Koresh
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>In the last two, (it wasn't the US Army) but paramil. forces - 
>people got killed
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>On 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:pseude at yahoo.com>pseude at yahoo.com> wrote:
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>Still waiting to hear what happens in similar situations in US of A 
>- say like if some African Americans were to protest again over 
>Hurricane Katrina? Maybe we should learn and implement similar 
>policies here.
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>Do they get 125 yrs jail...or Guantanamo Bay?.......or there's 
>political settlement?
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>Rgds,
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>Sandip
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>----- Original Message ----
>From: umesh sharma <<mailto:jaipurschool at yahoo.com> jaipurschool at yahoo.com>
>To: SANDIP DUTTA < <mailto:pseude at yahoo.com>pseude at yahoo.com>; Chan 
>Mahanta <<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net> cmahanta at charter.net>; 
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:56:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujar>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujar
>
>it confirms my opinion that Gujjars are not that backward -- in 
>comparison to the tribes /castes who are in SC ST category -- nobody 
>oppresses them - but they are maig this demand after upper caste 
>have got 10% reservation in Rajasthan and Jats -another dominant 
>warrior caste (rules Alwar and Haryana) has been included in OBC 
>category by former Congress govt. of Rajasthan
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>Umesh
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>SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:pseude at yahoo.com>pseude at yahoo.com> wrote:
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>"Think deeper" - he he!
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>How much deep info did you have about Meenas, Gujjars etc in 
>Rajasthan? - before you read the BBC report?
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>And you already decided it was a legitimate demand?
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>BTW, you didnt answer what happens in the US of A.
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>Rgds,
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>Sandip
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>----- Original Message ----
>From: Chan Mahanta <<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net> cmahanta at charter.net>
>To: SANDIP DUTTA < <mailto:pseude at yahoo.com>pseude at yahoo.com>; 
>Chandan Mahanta <<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net> 
>cmahanta at charter.net>; <mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:10:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
>
>Sandip:
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>You need to to think a little DEEPER!
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>WHY did RIOTING have to take place to begin with? Did these people 
>wake up one fine morning and decided, : Heck, things are dull,  let 
>us go burn some buses today and  cut-off policemen's limbs?
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>Think about it and come back with your questions again.
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>sd
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>At 6:06 AM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
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>Hello Sondon Da,
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>As far as I understand, police and RAF are meant to maintain law & 
>order and prevent rioters getting out of hand. Thats their job. Army 
>is called in only when situation gets out of control. Same approach 
>is applied everywhere. Local Admin calls in the army. In this case, 
>Rajasthan police had no experience handling anything of this kind in 
>the last many decades.
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>May we know what approach is taken towards rioters who use violence 
>as a form of protest and then try justifying it - in the 
>worlds greatest demokrasy - your home, the United EStates of Amrika? 
>I mean people who damage govt. property, possibly kill and maim 
>others and try to undermine state authority?
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>Rgds,
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>SD
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>----- Original Message ----
>From: Chandan Mahanta <<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net >
>To: <mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:59:35 AM
>Subject: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots
>
>Chandan Mahanta saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you
>should see it.
>
>** Message **
>This is typical of the Indian state's conflict resolution program, 
>which has not changed in sixty years after freedom.
>
>** Army deployed after India riots **
>Troops are deployed in India's Rajasthan state after 14 people are 
>killed in clashes over government job quotas.
>< 
><http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm >
>
>
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>
>Umesh Sharma
>
>Washington D.C.
>
>1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
>
>Ed.M. - International Education Policy
>Harvard Graduate School of Education,
>Harvard University,
>Class of 2005
>
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>(Edu info)
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