[Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

Sat Jun 2 06:47:58 EDT 2007

Sondon Da,

It has a lot to do with what goes on in India. Presumably because in your view India has failed on every front and hence you chose to make the USA your home. Therefore you need to let us know what goes on there instead of just talking away. Maybe you heard the term "Best Practices". 

Secondly, if you are really interested in making a contribution, it will be best to get back to Assam or to some other part of India (your choice). However again, you need to learn to be a team player because in a country of 1 billion people, if you only choose to only debunk others, there wont be any takers for sure. This you must have learnt from these discussions already :-)

Thank you,

Sandip

----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com>; Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
Cc: umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu; Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2007 12:23:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

>Do blacks get reservation there?

*** What does THAT have to do with WHAt goes on in India? Are Indians so ignorant, so incapable to decide what is right fore them, that they have to go by what the USA does or doesn't do?

>Indian Democracy is still maturing.

*** Really? A maturing process is not STATIC in time. It evolves. Where has India demonstrated such evolution since independence, as far as shooting down its own people every month?

India is incapable of change, because its intelligentsia is absent from its governance. Sandip's arguments are the best examples.

>But perhaps according to you, we should replace Indian governance with the >Maoist philosophy.

*** One does not have to put blinders on one's imaginations. But  that is what you are doing. You cannot even imagine to your full potential, even when no one is impeding it, controlling it. That is tragic.

At 5:08 PM -0700 6/1/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Do blacks get reservation there?

Since they dont, how does your US of A plan to bring them up the economic ladder? Is the fact that they dont riot reason enough for complacency? They could any time - given the necessary momentum and impetus.

Indian Democracy is still maturing. Since we did not get to write the constitution in 1785 or whatever - we need time to sort out things. Also - Reservations are a way to undo the age old prejudice perpetuated by high caste hindus (ask who?). Too bad if everyone want the lollies together.

But perhaps according to you, we should replace Indian governance with the Maoist philosophy. Then in the new order of things, anyone who protests will just be rounded up and done with - including Ulfa supporters.

-SD

----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com>; Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
Cc: umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu; Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 11:52:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

At 4:43 PM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:

That is why I asked about Hurricane Katrina where the black community was subjected to continual harrasment and their social griveiances never redressed. The black-white within the larger issue of racism continues to linger on.

Now are we comparing apples with apples??

Tell us what your US of A did in this case and how it solved a 200 year old problem.

Rgds,

SD

*** Yes, we ARE indeed comparing apples and oranges.  Racial bias issues today in the USA do not end up in riots and the military/police shooting down rioters. These are now settled  thru law making and in courts, civil as well as criminal.

But the problem is not gone. Perhaps we should encourage the USA to apply thousands of years old Hindu doctrines from India to better accomplish the task of racism, prejudice and discrimination :-)?

Compare that to Indian/army police shooting down their fellow men, by the dozens, routinely, almost every month, by their govts. advertised as DEMOCRATIC. So much so that the populace has resigned to the idea that mass grievances of minority groups will never be addressed until they resort to violence. The only language desi-demokrasy understands and pays heed to is that of violence and bloodshed.

Every society has problems. Functioning DEMOCRACIES have devised ways to resolve such conflicts peacefully and equitably, thru a political process and thru the courts., instead of REFUSING to recognize such discord in society or grievances of the numerical minorities, until violence breaks out.
That has been the recurring story of  what is packaged as democracy in India to wave to the world.

>From these posts it is abundantly clear to anyone paying attention, that a significant  section  of the Indian intelligentsia's concerns (be it from India or be it from abroad) for other human beings, even of their own, is limited to shedding crocodile tears, when it is convenient to do so.

Finally, I have one question:

        EVEN if the USA is just as bad or worse than India's human rights record or in its inability to
        resolve societal conflicts, does it JUSTIFY or NEUTRALIZE India's record or ERADICATE its
        own dysfunction?

cm

----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
To: Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>; SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com>
Cc: umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu; Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 12:54:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

>In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to expand on, I am sure).

*** Yes, but we are comparing apples and oranges.

>Elian Gonzalez

** It was case of enforcement of a court order. No one was killed if I am not mistaken.

>Ruby Ridge

*** It was a case of criminal kidnapping.

>David Koresh

*** Again a criminal case of confinement and refusal to submit to a court order, leading to a police/paramiltary raid, to defy which the inmates of the commune committed mass suicide.

None of these were anything akin to political /social disaffections , ignored by authorities, leading to demonstrations that turned into rioting terminated by military /police firing against their OWN PEOPLE.

At 8:29 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

Just to butt in here a bit.

In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to expand on, I am sure).

Elian Gonzalez

Ruby Ridge

David Koresh

In the last two, (it wasn't the US Army) but paramil. forces - people got killed

On 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com> wrote:

Still waiting to hear what happens in similar situations in US of A - say like if some African Americans were to protest again over Hurricane Katrina? Maybe we should learn and implement similar policies here.

Do they get 125 yrs jail...or Guantanamo Bay?.......or there's political settlement?

Rgds,

Sandip

----- Original Message ----
From: umesh sharma < jaipurschool at yahoo.com>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com>; Chan Mahanta < cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:56:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujar

it confirms my opinion that Gujjars are not that backward -- in comparison to the tribes /castes who are in SC ST category -- nobody oppresses them - but they are maig this demand after upper caste have got 10% reservation in Rajasthan and Jats -another dominant warrior caste (rules Alwar and Haryana) has been included in OBC category by former Congress govt. of Rajasthan

Umesh

SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com> wrote:

"Think deeper" - he he!

How much deep info did you have about Meenas, Gujjars etc in Rajasthan? - before you read the BBC report?

And you already decided it was a legitimate demand?

BTW, you didnt answer what happens in the US of A.

Rgds,

Sandip

----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta < cmahanta at charter.net>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <pseude at yahoo.com>; Chandan Mahanta < cmahanta at charter.net>; assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

Sandip:

You need to to think a little DEEPER!

WHY did RIOTING have to take place to begin with? Did these people wake up one fine morning and decided, : Heck, things are dull,  let us go burn some buses today and  cut-off policemen's limbs?

Think about it and come back with your questions again.

sd

At 6:06 AM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:

Hello Sondon Da,

As far as I understand, police and RAF are meant to maintain law & order and prevent rioters getting out of hand. Thats their job. Army is called in only when situation gets out of control. Same approach is applied everywhere. Local Admin calls in the army. In this case, Rajasthan police had no experience handling anything of this kind in the last many decades.

May we know what approach is taken towards rioters who use violence as a form of protest and then try justifying it - in the worlds greatest demokrasy - your home, the United EStates of Amrika? I mean people who damage govt. property, possibly kill and maim others and try to undermine state authority?

Rgds,

SD

----- Original Message ----
From: Chandan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net >
To: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:59:35 AM
Subject: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

Chandan Mahanta saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you
should see it.

** Message **
This is typical of the Indian state's conflict resolution program, which has not changed in sixty years after freedom.

** Army deployed after India riots **
Troops are deployed in India's Rajasthan state after 14 people are killed in clashes over government job quotas.
< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm >

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Umesh Sharma

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