[Assam] From Posoowa--Example of Creativity in High School Instruction

[Krishnendu Chakraborty]

> **** And it will prove WHAT?  That Indian students
do get the
> nurturing to be creative, inventive and break new
ground  as can be
> proven by-----?


Definitely not ! Definitely not!  My apologies.   But,
but  was it you who started this game of examples ?


> **** And YET, the Central Govt. has its own system,
because ---? It
> has implicit in the state schools'   quality ?
Because it merely
> provides it as an example of its benevolence,
setting a higher
> standard?

Ram-da has already explained the reason WHY KVs exist

Would you care to explain WHY in state teachers
selection we always hear of corruption/bribery while
this does not happen when teachers of KV are selected
(even though the same Natives get selected in either
case) ?


> *** Why? Does the Center NOT trust  the QUALITY of
state run schools?
> And WHAT percentage of the total seats are open to
the natives? 90%,
> 60%, 25%, 10%, 1%?

Had there been one single standard curriculum accorss
India, the need for KV would not have been there.
However,  SOME states are not willing to go for a
standard curriculum.  Now what do you suggest ... GOI
should force them ?
For example,  in KV,  they teach logic gates in Std 11
.  Under State,  there is no logic gates even in B Sc.
 One of our professor in Cotton commented that Diod
and Triod valves which are taught in B Sc (Physics
Major) are Obsolete and they have tried to change the
syllabus but then ...... you know what .
KV adopts a more practical oriented approach with
Projects and lab work. In State (Assam),  lab does not
start until after 10 and Projects are unheard of.

> And WHAT percentage of the total seats are open to
the natives? 90%,
> 60%, 25%, 10%, 1%?

C'da are you really willing to know India or just
shout without knowing anything.  Unlike Engineering
Colleges or Medical Colleges KV DOES not discriminate
based on ethnicity NOR does it ask for a PRC.  In our
time over 70% students (as well as teachers) were
Natives (born in Assam).  You can go and find out if
things have changed.


And FYI  GOI has also come up with Navodaya Vidyalayas
(one in each district) which follows the same
curriculum like KV.


> ARE part of the same school districts -- not
Federally funded and
> controlled schools for the scions of colonial
rulers, with a few
> crumbs set aside for the natives.  There is a
difference.
>


Oh well !! So your heartburn is just because GOI funds
it.  Or is it because of your half-baked knowledge
that GOI funded schools set aside a few crumbs for
natives ??  

I would best describe this as a "ghetto mentality --
unwilling to be informed about the place where you
were born, got your education"


> **** Yes there is a big discrepancy --- between poor
districts and
> the rich ones. One of the most  visible
> inequities of LOCAL CONTROL of American schooling.

So you agree --- a Rich and a Poor will NOT have EQUAL
education in US :-)


>If so WHY would I point to public
> schools as having been the single largest producers
of great and
> creative minds in America ? Wouldn't one want to
know that? Unless of
> course one is so disoriented by one's need to assert
a point, reason
> be damned.


Again you FAILED to say WHY you sent your Children to
Private Schools.  As to why you praised Public Schools
--- you will take up ANY argument to get a saddist
pleasure of beating India.


>
> *** How very generous! Just so we can see things in
perspective,
> what was the fee for Central Employees?  And pray
WHO makes up the
>

And what is the earnings of an Average American ...
the public school here DOES NOT charge any fee.
Damn if you do it , damn if you don't.  


> **** Now that is an original and creative construct,
nothing less
> than what could be expected from  a Kendriya
Vidyalay alumnus.


Your style of hitting the person when you have no more
arguments.  This clearly reflects "your mentality"


> Do we have  a clue to what we are quarreling about 
here?

Reminds me of Aesop's fable ---

American -- Indian Education system is damned --- No
Creativity
Indian -- But we do have ... see so many Indians
shining in the world

A--  Oh ... they are so just because they came out of
India
I--  But then they had over 16 years of education in
India

A -- So what ... see our example (shows one example)
I --  Here is our example (shows seven examples)

A -- Just 7 from a country of 1 billion ... what do
you prove
I -  But you showed just 1 !!

A -- Hey ... your guys are all from Private School 
(Note the shift in Argument -- Creativity to
Public/Private)
I -- No ... there are from  Public School too

A --  Why should there be a GOI funded public school
(shift in argument -- who funds the school)
I --  But then ,  these schools has more local
students then students of other regions

A ---  Damn your arguments --- Indian Education System
is bad, bad, bad just because I say so (even though I
benefitted from it).

RIP ---- no more comments





>**** And YET, the Central Govt. has its own system,
because ---? It
>has implicit in the state schools'   quality ?
Because it merely
>provides it as an example of its benevolence, setting
a higher
>standard? Or that it does not trust the state systems
and therefore
>devised its own, funding it adequately and managing
it with able
>people---for the benefit of ALL?

>>C'da,

>>You are reading way too much into what the Central
Govt.is doing or not
doing.

>>First, there are 3 lists (if I remember the Indian
Constitutions). They are
the Central List, the State List, and the Concurrent
List.

>>Education happens to be on all three lists. One of
the main reasons the
state list has education is for individual states to
be able to develop
their own standards, and also in development of their
literature and
culture. Would you want it otherwise?

>>Education in the central list is for the over all
maintenance of educational
standards of all states. The University Grants
Commission is one such org.
It sets standards and helps state institutions with
grants and recognition.

>>Institutions under the Center like the Central
Schools were set up so that
children of Central employees and military personnel
are able to continue
with the same instruction when parents are frequently
transferred.

>>Obviously, funding streams for state and Central
institutions are different.
Some states are able to manage their institutions,
while others like Assam,
want an old and well-respected institution like
Gauhati University be taken
over by the Center.

>>Now, why is that. The State is trying to get the
Center to take care of the
finances of GU, so the state financial responsibility
can be shifted.

>>Now, you would blame the damn Center either way. If
they did not take over
an institution like GU, you might say - 'look, the
Center is trying to take
over an age old Assam Institution, blah, blah..

>>If the Center did not, you would claim benevolence,
setting higher standards
etc,etc.
> Because it merely >provides it as an example of its
benevolence, >setting
a higher >standard?

>>This is preposterous, someone complaining because
the Center is trying to
set a higher standard? Would you like it to emulate
lower ones? And then you
would moan and groan about the low standards of Indian
institutions, their
products, and how incompetent Indian education system
is.
>>
As far as standards are concerned, states have the
full control of their own
institutions and have the ability to set higher
standards (or lower,
base-line ones). Who is stopping them? The Center?
Then you would have
explain how on earth they do it?

A similar kind of system also exists in this country,
which you already know
about. If you want to compare US system with that of
India, then it must be
approached with the amount of $$ spent here per
school/per student vs in
India and what outcomes have resulted.

I don't have the data at the tip of my fingers, but I
am confident, that the
amount of $$ spent per student is far, far greater
than in India, and the
rates of return are nothing to write home about
(talking about schools not
universities).

--Ram






On 10/2/07, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
wrote:
>
> >** You wanted examples which I have provided (SEVEN
> >against ONE which you cited).  If you are willing
and
> >from India BOTH from public and private institution
> >(as cited by Umesh).
>
>
>
>
> **** And it will prove WHAT?  That Indian students
do get the
> nurturing to be creative, inventive and break new
ground  as can be
> proven by-----?
>
>
>
> >Education is a matter of STATE Govt.  While the
Govt funded
> >institutes in some states are doing pretty >goodit
is NOT so for
> >other states.
>
>
> **** And YET, the Central Govt. has its own system,
because ---? It
> has implicit in the state schools'   quality ?
Because it merely
> provides it as an example of its benevolence,
setting a higher
> standard? Or that it does not trust the state
systems and therefore
> devised its own, funding it adequately and managing
it with able
> people---for the benefit of ALL?
>
>
> Do we have  a clue to what we are quarreling about 
here?
>
>
> >  >In US NOT all public schools are equal ... as I
> >>understand,  some school districts are considered
> >  >superior to others.   So let us know why SOME
schools
> >>do better then other schools.  And then  there are
> >Charter Schools which get more funds.
>
>
> **** Yes there is a big discrepancy --- between poor
districts and
> the rich ones. One of the most  visible
> inequities of LOCAL CONTROL of American schooling. 
Charter schools
> were created to MITIGATE the effects of such
inequities.  And they
> ARE part of the same school districts -- not
Federally funded and
> controlled schools for the scions of colonial
rulers, with a few
> crumbs set aside for the natives.  There is a
difference.
>
>
> >While KV gives priority to transferrable employees,
>
>
> *** Why? Does the Center NOT trust  the QUALITY of
state run schools?
> And WHAT percentage of the total seats are open to
the natives? 90%,
> 60%, 25%, 10%, 1%?
>
>
> >  >Perfect.  I have no issues if you pay tens of
thousand dollars to
> >send your child to Private School.  But
> >then Indian Education is  OUR business ... NOT
your.
>
>
> **** Are these two issues COMPARABLE ? Would anyone
with even a
> rudimentary ability to reason equate the two?
>
>
> >If you had "EQUALLY HIGH QUALITY" in Public school,
 you WOULD NOT
> >have sent your kid to >Private School. And since
you sent your
> >children to Private School it shows that you DO NOT
TRUST  >on
> >quality of Public Schools in US
>
>
> **** That is a half-a**ed conclusion at best.  But
let us assume that
> that is what is ALL about, that there could not
possibly be other
> factors, or reasons  ( not everyone is endowed with
ordinary amount
> of reasoning ability after all).  If so WHY would I
point to public
> schools as having been the single largest producers
of great and
> creative minds in America ? Wouldn't one want to
know that? Unless of
> course one is so disoriented by one's need to assert
a point, reason
> be damned.
>
>
> >BTW,  the fees in KV used to be Rs5  (waived for
economically poorer
> >section) when I was a student.  >Ifthings have not
changed it is
> >still in same range.
>
>
> *** How very generous! Just so we can see things in
perspective,
> what was the fee for Central Employees?  And pray
WHO makes up the
> DIFFERENCE between the fee generated and the
expenses incurred.
> Pardon me for asking such a silly question though.
In my ignorance I
> might be overlooking the fact of the staff not
taking any salaries,
> providing public service out of their own good will,
while the
> premises and the utilities are gifts of the gods.
>
>
> >  >As you said earlier .....  you are quarreling
for the sake of
> >quarreling making yourself look bad
>
>
> **** Now that is an original and creative construct,
nothing less
> than what could be expected from  a Kendriya
Vidyalay alumnus.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 6:29 AM -0700 10/2/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
wrote:
> >  >>seven kids out of a country of a billion
people,
> >knowing what I do,
> >
> >** You wanted examples which I have provided (SEVEN
> >against ONE which you cited).  If you are willing
and
> >have time, you can search web to find more such
kids
> >from India BOTH from public and private institution
> >(as cited by Umesh).
> >
> >
> >
> >>>While I am unwilling to
> >>>pass verdict on the condition of Indian education
> >
> >You SHOULD NOT since you have no clue of today's
India
> >nor are you willing to learn
> >
> >
> >>>Why is it that Kendriya Vidyalays get special
> >funding , special
> >>>teachers, while the rest of the country has to
make
> >do with what they
> >>>have to?
> >
> >Education is a matter of STATE Govt.  While the
Govt
> >funded institutes in some states are doing pretty
good
> >it is NOT so for other states.  It is analogous to
> >blaming me because you wasted your money on
gambling
> >(or whatever may be) while you too had every
> >opportunity to utilize your money fruitfully.
> >
> >In US NOT all public schools are equal ... as I
> >understand,  some school districts are considered
> >superior to others.   So let us know why SOME
schools
> >do better then other schools.  And then  there are
> >Charter Schools which get more funds.
> >
> >
> >>>>  What is it about Central employees that
deserve
> >such special
> >>>care, while the rest don't?  Colonialism is what
> >comes to mind.
> >
> >Another good example of your KNOWLEDGE of India.
While
> >KV gives priority to transferrable employees, it is
> >open to others as well.  My parents were NOT
Central
> >(or even State) Govt employee but I studied in KV
> >anyway ... you always "Know Better".
> >BTW,  many educationists want GOA to adopt KV
> >education pattern  but again GOI cannot force it.
> >
> >
> >>>Where our children went to school is our
business.
> >>It has nothing to
> >>do with why quality of PUBLIC EDUCATION, one of
the
> >>highest
> >>priorities of any nation.
> >
> >Perfect.  I have no issues if you pay tens of
thousand
> >dollars to send your child to Private School.  But
> >then Indian Education is  OUR business ... NOT
your.
> >
> >
> >>>Let us assume they went to some highly exclusive
> >>>private schools, because we could afford it.
Should
> >that mean that
> >>>those who could not afford it did not deserve an
> >equally high quality
> >schooling?
> >
> >
> >If you had "EQUALLY HIGH QUALITY" in Public school,
> >you WOULD NOT have sent your kid to Private School.
> >And since you sent your children to Private School
it
> >shows that you DO NOT TRUST  on quality of Public
> >Schools in US
> >
> >BTW,  the fees in KV used to be Rs5  (waived for
> >economically poorer section) when I was a student. 
If
> >things have not changed it is still in same range.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>>it still has produced some of the nation's most
> >important and most creative
> >>>personalities and contributed to its advancement.
> >Shawnee Mission
> >>>East High School is a good example.
> >
> >Similarly  KV is a good example
> >
> >
> >
> >As you said earlier .....  you are quarreling for
the
> >sake of quarreling making yourself look bad
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Out of the seven kids, ONE, was from Kendriya
> >Vidyalay, a public
> >>>institution, but a highly PRIVILEGED one.  While
I
> >am unwilling to
> >>>pass verdict on the condition of Indian education
> >from the example of
> >>>seven kids out of a country of a billion people,
> >knowing what I do,
> >>>one can reasonably conclude that the example of
> >these kids cited are
> >>>an extraordinary exception, not the norm by a
long
> >shot.
> >
> >Why is it that Kendriya Vidyalays get special
funding
> >, special
> >teachers, while the rest of the country has to make
do
> >with what they
> >have to? What is it about Central employees that
> >deserve such special
> >care, while the rest don't?  Colonialism is what
comes
> >to mind.
> >
> >Where our children went to school is our business.
It
> >has nothing to
> >do with why quality of PUBLIC EDUCATION, one of the
> >highest
> >priorities of any nation.  Our circumstances
dictated
> >where we sent
> >our kids to school. Let us assume they went to some
> >highly exclusive
> >private schools, because we could afford it. Should
> >that mean that
> >those who could not afford it did not deserve an
> >equally high quality
> >schooling?
> >
> >While it is a well-known  fact that American public
> >schooling leaves
> >a lot to be desired, it still has
> >produced some of the nation's most important and
most
> >creative
> >personalities and contributed to its advancement.
> >Shawnee Mission
> >East High School is a good example.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 2:37 PM -0700 10/1/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
> >wrote:
> >>There goes your knowledge about India :)
> >>
> >>Kendriya Vidyalaya (first link) is a Central Govt
> >>School fully funded by GOI and spread accross all
> >over
> >>India (including NE).  And with some more research
> >you
> >>will be able to find out other achivements of
> >students
> >>of Kendriya Vidyalaya ... if you are really
> >>interested.
> >>
> >>BTW,  did your children attend a public school or
a
> >>private school ?  If Private school,  why?
> >>
> >>If not,  the same question remains ... why do many
> >>Americans send their children to highly expensive
> >>Private School?
> >>
> >>
> >>>>That was nice to note.
> >>
> >>>>One significant difference:  All of the students
> >>>>from India are from
> >>>>Private Schools. Nandinee is from a public high
> >>>>school ( not like
> >>>>Indian Public School, as in Doon School etc.),
> >>>>Shawnee Mission East
> >>>>High School, Kansas.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 1:43 PM -0700 10/1/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
> >>wrote:
> >>>Congratulations Nandini
> >>>
> >>>C'da,  you might be interested in these too
> >>>
> >>>
>
>>>http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/21/stories/2007052104521300.htm
> >>>
>
>>>http://www.educationuk.org/clubukindia/1/news_india_youth.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >



       
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