[Assam] IIT Chief: Ram, science and religious belief

Thu Sep 20 21:15:24 CDT 2007

--- Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:

> >  >Hmmm..... Did I say ALL Hindus and Mulsims are
> Fundamentalist ... that damn English language !!
> 
> >**** C'da don't you think that  "Hindu Rationalist"
> or "Muslim 
> >Rationalist" is a Oxymoron.  I would	assume a
> Rationalist will be 
> >an aethist.  So every faith
> >  will be "somebody else's" faith for him.
> 
> 
> **** The question and statement above was NOT mine.
> It clearly says 
> that Krishnendu  cannot imagine a Hindu or a Muslim
> to be rational. 
> That only Aetheists could be rational.  And if
> Hindus or Muslims 
> cannot be rational, it means only one thing: That
> they accept all 
> their scriptural or commonly understood or accepted
> tenets 
> literally, regardless of whether they are rational
> or not;  which is 
> the definition of being a fundamentalist.
> 
> Yes indeed, that damned English language leaves a
> lot of desis 
> discombobulated day in and day out, don't they?

And that includes you too I guess.
A rationalist WOULD NOT believe in God because HE does
not see one nor has he got a proof of God's existence.
 So by your definitiion they cannot belong to Islam or
Christianity (does not believe in Alla or Jesus).
Since you got trapped in your flawed logic you are now
twisting and putting your own words in my mouth ...
pathetic.

> 
> 
> >  >Is birth into a nominal Christian family  not
> enough to be labeled 
> >one even if the person does not go
> >through Baptism ?
> 
> *** I don't know. Is it? But I do know Christians do
> subscribe to  a 
> set of core principles and beliefs and it is
> required to be one.
> 

So if a Christina by birth does not subscribe to those
belief, what is he ... an aethist ? a rationalist?

> 
> 
> >Good point.  So can you, as a human, go and ask
> them to prove that 
> >Prophet talked to God ?
> 
> **** If that had anything to do with the Ramsetu
> controversy, I might 
> have. 

Question is ,  is Ramsetu the ONLY issue that should
be questioned.  Have you EVER publicly questioned any
other religion's belif ?

Question is does that? If it does not, why is
> it an issue in 
> this discourse, other than to assert that since
> Muslims also 
> irrational beliefs, they are equally GUILTY as
> Hinduttwawallas of 
> interference with Ramsetu.
> 
> How does that fare in the index of rationality?

It simply asserts that irrationalism is NOT limited to
Hindus ... it is true for all religion.

> Since it is unlikely 
> to elicit an answer, I would let netters imagine
> that.
> 
> 
> 
> >Or will they as rational, dig into that ?
> 
> *** I would think that for them to dig into that
> would be stupid., 
> not rational.
> 
> 
> >Or for that matter demand withdrwal of Haj subsidy
> (which will 
> >benefit India of a couple of Crore Rs).
> 
> *** That is a matter of Indian misgovernment, not an
> innate  fault of 
> Islam. And it has everything to do with Muslim fears
> of persecution 
> in a Hindu majority India and to get votes. And WHO
> exactly are the 
> people who initiated the program ? Were these
> Indians or  perhaps 
> Pakistanis?  And if these Indians who did that, are
> they good Indians 
> or bad Indians? If they are bad Indians, then where
> are the good 
> Indians to undo it? Did LK Advani and ABV's govt.
> did anything to 
> change it? From what I know the NDA govt. actually
> EXPANDED the 
> program. Rumor has it ,  the expanded Haj subsidy
> program was 
> undertaken to benefit charter airline operator
> supporters of the BJP, 
> the HIndutawallas.

RSS has protested it or for that matter the dual law a
number of times and then the Seculars  raised their
voice of protest.

> 
> What it proves is the dysfunctional condition of
> Indian governance. 
> No other non-Islamic country offers or maintains
> such a program. If 
> an India with an 80% majority of Hindus are
> incapable of undoing such 
> a program, who are at fault, the 80% majority or the
> 13% minority?

Granted,  it is the lack of courage of Indian
Government.  But remember,  India has the largest
number of Muslim population in any Non Islamic
country.  There have been attempt to stop these and
sparks from so called seculars

> 
> 
> >Looks like you got a HUGE support.  However,
> Karunanidhi is NOT a 
> >rationalist but an >OPPORTUNIST... just like
> Advani. He is 
> >exploiting the Dravidian sentiment where Ram is
> considered >as a 
> >villain and Ravan as a hero.
> 
> 
> **** Heh-heh!  Fortunately I do NOT need
> Karunanidhi's support. Yes 
> Karunanidhi is an opportunist, just like LKA or the
> BJP too, the 
> Hindu saviors. So is the Congress. Question is WHO
> is left to lead 
> the country ? Any thoughts on that?
> 

May be CM :-)

> 
> 
> >  >I am relieved to know that you care about others
> of humankind ... 
> >never saw you criticizing the killing >of Biharis
> in Assam   :-) 
> >Just a few days back you said you give a damn to
> what India is doing 
> >or >how India is improving. Are you changing your
> stance? And if you 
> >as a Human has right to meddle in >others Religious
> Belief,  WHY 
> >would not Indersen or anyone else have that right?
> 
> 
> **** Not giving a damn about  how India is doing was
> in the CONTEXT 
> of how Assam is doing.  You stripped my comment of
> context , 
> rendering it malicious to serve your particular need
> to score a 
> point. That is what is truly malicious,
> disingenuous.

Hmmm...  if I remember correct it was also on Indian
Education front.  Also,  HOW does this Ram Setu impact
Assam ... you mentioned earlier that you care only for
Assam .

> 
> Bihari killings in Assam has been a result of acts
> of commission of 
> Indian misgovernment in Assam. That is why I would
> not validate your 
> and others' attempts to put the blame squarely on
> ULFA by joining you 
> guys in condemning  it.  I know better. Similarly
> for many other such 
> acts .

Definitely you know better.  After all an American
always knows better.  BTW,  your fellow learned
Americans are now criticizing your boys.
Coming to Bihari killing what you say is since ULFA
and you THINK that GOI is dysfunctional, you should go
ahead on a killing spree killing innocent people ...
and it is justified. True you have a lot Human values
:) 

> 
> 
> >  >And if you as a Human has right to meddle in
> others Religious 
> >Belief,  WHY would not Indersen or >anyone else
> have that right?
> 
> 
> **** Whose religious beliefs am I meddling in? If
> Krishnendu or 
> Indiresan or whoever else want to remain buried in
> superstitions andf 
> irrational beliefs it is their choice. Far be it for
> me than to 
> interfere with that. But Indirasen was attempting to
> have it both 
> ways: On the one hand singing praises of RATIONAL
> thinking, while 
> trashing those Indians who were critical of
> IRRATIONAL Hindu beliefs. 
> He can't have it both ways. Nor can you.

That is his view, concerns Hinduism and India. Why do
you have a heartburn ?  Or is that damn American
phenomenon meddling with others business always?

> 
> And worst of all, Indirasen the revered desi
> intellectual is clueless 
> about the REAL issue in the controversy: Of the
> injection of 
> irrational religious beliefs of Hindus in the
> affairs of state that 
> affects not only Hindus but ALL.

How does it affect YOU ?

> 
> That is the difference.
> 
> I thought I explained it clearly earlier. And people
> who understand 
> ordinary English got it right-away.
> But I like to help out. I know how hard it could be
> on some, reeling 
> under the burdens of religious prejudices and
> irrational beliefs :-).
> 
> 
> >Why Indians?  Why not ascribe it to Americans?
> 
>>>>>**** That is because no American has challenged
that YET. Or implied 
it is something to abhor. The Americans I know and
commiserate with 
are sophisticated  enough to know not to inject their
religious 
burdens on their governance.
> 

Heh heh .....  the true HUMAN Americans goes on a
killing spree meddling in others business ... very
sophisticated indeed.
You pretend to be ignorant on Rligious Importance in
American politics.  Church goes a long way garnering
support.  Also ,  I have seen during Christmas every
government (and private) office decorate with
Christmas tree, Santa and Jesus.  Who funds it in the
Government Office ??
Christians are absolute majority in US so the
political equation is different.  But see how
Missionaries go around the world converting others.

>>>> What do you think?  Am I the only offender here?
Indirasen does not 
even know of my existence.
Could it be that I have the intestinal fortitude to
say it like it 
is, inviting the irrational believers' wrath?
Or is it my 'cowardice' that angers you so?
>>>>>

No,  you surely have a small section of supporters
(like Karunanidhi :-) ) . This was specific for you
because you are the one in this forum who keep looking
for an opportunity.
And as for your "cowardice" ... it has been proved a
number of times in this forum when you demostrated
your failure to utter a word against non-Hindus or
against your adopted homeland... nothing new :-)  

>>>>>*** I am sorry to know that. Unfortunately it
does not speak well of 
your own intellectual abilities and merely underscores
how uneducated 
you are about  democracy ,the rule of law and freedom
of religion. 
>>>>>>

Yes Democacy and rule of law is applicable only when a
mosque is demolished not when temples are demolished. 
Democracy is applicable when you speak about
Rationalism in Hinduism but not when Mother Teresa is
made a Saint based on an utterly irrational logic that
she cured Cancer through prayers.  

I agree I need some more education to understand these
new Definitions of Democracy.

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