[Assam] assam Digest, Vol 26, Issue 58

Rajen & Ajanta Barua barua25 at hotmail.com
Sat Sep 29 02:07:51 CDT 2007 

Good points.
I agree that English is:
1)A world language of the future and India needs it.
2) I said that without English, the Indian democracy will fall overnight.
3) I agree Indians are Indianising the English language in India.
4) I agree that India is one of the largest publisher of English books.
5) But the fact remains that English is a 'foerign' language. It is not an Indian language. We are trying to Indianise it.
6) If our middle class is 20%, then I would say that probably 20% can speak English.

I think we Indians should thank the British for giving this boon to India without which India could not have been a single country what India is today.
That is the point what some historians are trying to make.
Barua

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arindam Garg" <zgarg1 at yahoo.co.in>
To: <assam at assamnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 26, Issue 58


> With due respects to all, it is extremely ironic and
> slightly funny that we are debating on the usage of
> English language in India and using English as the
> medium for it.
> 
> I have no clue where this 1.5 % of population in India
> speak English came from but what I can tell you
> definitely is that studies conducted by the British
> Council and various Management surveys in India are of
> the firm view that India would be having the highest
> English speaking population in the world by 2010.
> 
> And as Manojda pointed out, it is going to be the
> universal language in the Global Village called Planet
> Earth. China and Russia have started looking at
> English in their primary schools.
> 
> The harsh reality in India now is that to become a
> salesman in a decent shop or to work even in a parlour
> in any metro you need to know English. The rest of the
> qualifications.....well they dont even look at them
> while hiring. The Outsourced business which is pumping
> dollars into the Indian economy is the best
> example....the housekeeping staff in many of these
> places know English,and yes you have our own Assamese
> guys and girls there too.
> 
> The greatness about Indian culture is that it can
> absorb anything that comes whether it is language,
> culture, people, Indianise them and at the same time
> ensure that the culture remains intact. 
> 
> Hey I used the word Indianise, is it there in the
> English language...probably no not at this moment of
> time, but its just a matter of time before we see it
> in the Oxford dictionary.
> 
> 
> arindam garg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- assam-request at assamnet.org wrote:
> 
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
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>> > Today's Topics:
>> 
>>    1. Re: Book review : India After Gandhi- Bengal
>> democracy (Manoj Das)
>>    2. Re: Book review : India After Gandhi- Bengal
>> democracy
>>       (Ram Sarangapani)
>>    3. Re: Book review : India After Gandhi- Bengal
>> democracy (Manoj Das)
>> > From: "Manoj Das" <dasmk2k at gmail.com>
>> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam
>> from around the world"
>> <assam at assamnet.org>
>> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:04:17 +0530
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal democracy
>> 
>> Ramda Rajenda et al..
>> 
>> Why we have taken to learning English language in
>> India, apart from the
>> reasons mentionedl:
>> 
>> 1. this is the best river to gain entry into the
>> ocean of knowledge ;
>> 2. if at all we have to learn a language of others;
>> get the best in world;
>> which is not pure bred like the French;
>> 
>> As for me I learned the first A B C Ds in class IV
>> in high school. The
>> teachers were awfully unequipped. There was a rumour
>> in Class -VI that we
>> will have the option to completely avoid English,
>> 99% of the students were
>> very very happy. When I took admission in
>> PU(Science) at Cotton College,
>> again I had the option to take either Assamese or
>> English medium. Our
>> teacher KD Krori sir told us: Those who want to
>> become Doctors, Engineers,
>> Scientists should opt for English, it will be easier
>> later. And I don't
>> regret now. i am learning the language daily.
>> 
>> It's neither local, nor foreign, it's the WORLD
>> LANGUAGE, and we cannot wish
>> away that.
>> 
>> Two banes are going to be boons for India 1. The
>> English language 2. The
>> population.
>> 
>> regards to all
>> -manoj
>> 
>> On 9/29/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >  Ram:
>> > If you insist to know my views:
>> > English is a foreign language in India because:
>> > 1) It is not rooted in India.
>> > 2) There is nothing Indian about it except the
>> fact the middle class
>> > Indians use it to overcome the difficulty of their
>> too many languages.
>> > 3) It was never a language in India during the
>> last 5000 years of India's
>> > history except during the British colonial rule.
>> > 4) We even cannot say that we have been using this
>> language for 100 years
>> > even by the middle class.
>> > 5) It can be compared only to Persian language
>> which was also at one time
>> > imposed as a court language in India during the
>> Moghol rules and which is
>> > dead in India now.
>> > 6) Even today, even after 100 years, it is spoken
>> in India by only 1.5% of
>> > Indians (quoted from email net - less than 1.5% of
>> the population actually
>> > have proficiency in it-KC.)
>> > 7) Nobody in India, even the majority of middle
>> class Indians like you,
>> > would consider English as an Indian language.
>> >
>> > and many more.
>> >
>> > Indians always need something 'foreign' to rule
>> themselves:
>> > the Aryans, the Rajputs, the Afghans, the Moghuls,
>> the British, and now
>> > the English language.
>> > BTW I am not looking for an response on this from
>> you. I think this is a
>> > waste of time even to debate on this issue.
>> > Thanks
>> > Barua
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the world<assam at assamnet.org>
>> > *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 10:09 PM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal democracy
>> >
>> > >We can start with a definition of the word
>> 'foreign' looking at a
>> > dictionary
>> >
>> > Why look into a dictionary? I think most of us
>> know what "foreign" and
>> > what "native" means? The dictionary is not going
>> to tell me anything
>> > different.
>> >
>> > >and see if we can call 'English' a foreign
>> language or a native language.
>> >
>> > You were the one who claimed it is a "foreign
>> language". So, before we put
>> > this into a plebicite of sorts, I wanted to know
>> why you call it "foreign".
>> > I said it is not a foreign language in India, and
>> I gave netters a few
>> > reasons. There are many more. I hope you will
>> provide us some reasons why
>> > you claim it is foreign.
>> >
>> > Once you are able to do that, we can go from
>> there.:)
>> >
>> > --Ram
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  We can start with a definition of the word
>> 'foreign' looking at a
>> > > dictionary and see if we can call 'English' a
>> foreign language or a
>> > > native language.
>> > > Next we can take the opinions of the general
>> Indian public in India
>> > > whether general Indians think English language
>> is foreign or not..
>> > > Those will be my two starting points.
>> > > What do you say?
>> > > Barua
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> > > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the
>> > > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>> > >  *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 7:55 PM
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal
>> > > democracy
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Barua,
>> > >
>> > > I will let Alpana put forth her own defenses :),
>> and just to make it
>> > > clear this is not a husband-wife tag team ::)
>> > >
>> > > >Ram's weak defense as English not being a
>> foregn language also falls
>> > > >pathetically into the same catagory.
>> > >
>> > > Why do you think my defense is weak and can you
>> cite a few reasons why
>> > > English is foreign, and we will go from there.
>> > >
>> > > --Ram
>> > >
>> > > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >  A/
>> > > > What you are trying to say is this:
>> > > > "Although what you are saying seems to be
>> true, but I am not going to
>> > > > acknowledge it as truth, because if I remember
>> you said somthing in the past
>> > > > in some other context which I did not like. As
>> such without checking your
>> > > > past words, I cannot acknowledge it as truth
>> although it may be a truth."
>> > > >
>> > > > In Indian culture we have been taught to stand
>> up for the truth
>> > > > irrespective of the speaker. You aeem to be
>> doing just the opposite.
>> > > > It does not matter what I said in the past in
>> some other context.
>> > > > A truth must acknolwedged as a truth.
>> > > > Otherwise we will be always walking on quick
>> sands.
>> > > > Ram's weak defense as English not being a
>> foregn language also falls
>> > > > pathetically into the same catagory.
>> > > > Barua
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > *From:* Alpana B. Sarangapani
>> <absarangapani at hotmail.com>
>> 
> === message truncated ===> From: "Ram Sarangapani"
> <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam
>> from around the world"
>> <assam at assamnet.org>
>> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:54:07 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal democracy
>> 
>> >BTW I am not looking for an response on this from
>> you. I think this is a
>> waste of >time even to debate on this issue.
>> 
>> It truely is a colossal waste. Just to let you know,
>> I didn't say what I
>> said just because I felt like it, there were very
>> valid reasons, and your
>> "foreign" comment only triggered it..... and nothing
>> more.
>> This is a hot topic in India today. If you are
>> interested, you might want to
>> look into the New York Times articles from yesterday
>> (Sept. 28th) and also
>> about Mulayam Singh Yadav and his comments.
>> 
>> Anyway --- I have totally lost interest in the topic
>> by now.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> --Ram
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >  Ram:
>> > If you insist to know my views:
>> > English is a foreign language in India because:
>> > 1) It is not rooted in India.
>> > 2) There is nothing Indian about it except the
>> fact the middle class
>> > Indians use it to overcome the difficulty of their
>> too many languages.
>> > 3) It was never a language in India during the
>> last 5000 years of India's
>> > history except during the British colonial rule.
>> > 4) We even cannot say that we have been using this
>> language for 100 years
>> > even by the middle class.
>> > 5) It can be compared only to Persian language
>> which was also at one time
>> > imposed as a court language in India during the
>> Moghol rules and which is
>> > dead in India now.
>> > 6) Even today, even after 100 years, it is spoken
>> in India by only 1.5% of
>> > Indians (quoted from email net - less than 1.5% of
>> the population actually
>> > have proficiency in it-KC.)
>> > 7) Nobody in India, even the majority of middle
>> class Indians like you,
>> > would consider English as an Indian language.
>> >
>> > and many more.
>> >
>> > Indians always need something 'foreign' to rule
>> themselves:
>> > the Aryans, the Rajputs, the Afghans, the Moghuls,
>> the British, and now
>> > the English language.
>> > BTW I am not looking for an response on this from
>> you. I think this is a
>> > waste of time even to debate on this issue.
>> > Thanks
>> > Barua
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the world<assam at assamnet.org>
>> >  *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 10:09 PM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal democracy
>> >
>> >
>> > >We can start with a definition of the word
>> 'foreign' looking at a
>> > dictionary
>> >
>> > Why look into a dictionary? I think most of us
>> know what "foreign" and
>> > what "native" means? The dictionary is not going
>> to tell me anything
>> > different.
>> >
>> > >and see if we can call 'English' a foreign
>> language or a native language.
>> >
>> > You were the one who claimed it is a "foreign
>> language". So, before we put
>> > this into a plebicite of sorts, I wanted to know
>> why you call it "foreign".
>> > I said it is not a foreign language in India, and
>> I gave netters a few
>> > reasons. There are many more. I hope you will
>> provide us some reasons why
>> > you claim it is foreign.
>> >
>> > Once you are able to do that, we can go from
>> there.:)
>> >
>> > --Ram
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  We can start with a definition of the word
>> 'foreign' looking at a
>> > > dictionary and see if we can call 'English' a
>> foreign language or a
>> > > native language.
>> > > Next we can take the opinions of the general
>> Indian public in India
>> > > whether general Indians think English language
>> is foreign or not..
>> > > Those will be my two starting points.
>> > > What do you say?
>> > > Barua
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> > > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the
>> > > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>> > >  *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 7:55 PM
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal
>> > > democracy
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Barua,
>> > >
>> > > I will let Alpana put forth her own defenses :),
>> and just to make it
>> > > clear this is not a husband-wife tag team ::)
>> > >
>> > > >Ram's weak defense as English not being a
>> foregn language also falls
>> > > >pathetically into the same catagory.
>> > >
>> > > Why do you think my defense is weak and can you
>> cite a few reasons why
>> > > English is foreign, and we will go from there.
>> > >
>> > > --Ram
>> > >
>> > > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >  A/
>> > > > What you are trying to say is this:
>> > > > "Although what you are saying seems to be
>> true, but I am not going to
>> > > > acknowledge it as truth, because if I remember
>> you said somthing in the past
>> > > > in some other context which I did not like. As
>> such without checking your
>> > > > past words, I cannot acknowledge it as truth
>> although it may be a truth."
>> > > >
>> > > > In Indian culture we have been taught to stand
>> up for the truth
>> > > > irrespective of the speaker. You aeem to be
>> doing just the opposite.
>> > > > It does not matter what I said in the past in
>> some other context.
>> > > > A truth must acknolwedged as a truth.
>> > > > Otherwise we will be always walking on quick
>> sands.
>> > > > Ram's weak defense as English not being a
>> foregn language also falls
>> > > > pathetically into the same catagory.
>> > > > Barua
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > *From:* Alpana B. Sarangapani
>> <absarangapani at hotmail.com>
>> > > > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the
>> > > > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>> > > >  *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 2:54 PM
>> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India
>> After Gandhi- Bengal
>> > > > democracy
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> 
> === message truncated ===> From: "Manoj Das"
> <dasmk2k at gmail.com>
>> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam
>> from around the world"
>> <assam at assamnet.org>
>> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:29:25 +0530
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal democracy
>> 
>> :) ramda..cheers!!
>> 
>> On 9/29/07, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >BTW I am not looking for an response on this from
>> you. I think this is a
>> > waste of >time even to debate on this issue.
>> >
>> > It truely is a colossal waste. Just to let you
>> know, I didn't say what I
>> > said just because I felt like it, there were very
>> valid reasons, and your
>> > "foreign" comment only triggered it..... and
>> nothing more.
>> > This is a hot topic in India today. If you are
>> interested, you might want
>> > to look into the New York Times articles from
>> yesterday (Sept. 28th) and
>> > also about Mulayam Singh Yadav and his comments.
>> >
>> > Anyway --- I have totally lost interest in the
>> topic by now.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > --Ram
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  Ram:
>> > > If you insist to know my views:
>> > > English is a foreign language in India because:
>> > > 1) It is not rooted in India.
>> > > 2) There is nothing Indian about it except the
>> fact the middle class
>> > > Indians use it to overcome the difficulty of
>> their too many languages.
>> > > 3) It was never a language in India during the
>> last 5000 years of
>> > > India's history except during the British
>> colonial rule.
>> > > 4) We even cannot say that we have been using
>> this language for 100
>> > > years even by the middle class.
>> > > 5) It can be compared only to Persian language
>> which was also at one
>> > > time imposed as a court language in India during
>> the Moghol rules and which
>> > > is dead in India now.
>> > > 6) Even today, even after 100 years, it is
>> spoken in India by only 1.5%of Indians (quoted from
>> email net - less than
>> > > 1.5% of the population actually have proficiency
>> in it-KC.)
>> > > 7) Nobody in India, even the majority of middle
>> class Indians like you,
>> > > would consider English as an Indian language.
>> > >
>> > > and many more.
>> > >
>> > > Indians always need something 'foreign' to rule
>> themselves:
>> > > the Aryans, the Rajputs, the Afghans, the
>> Moghuls, the British, and now
>> > > the English language.
>> > > BTW I am not looking for an response on this
>> from you. I think this is a
>> > > waste of time even to debate on this issue.
>> > > Thanks
>> > > Barua
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> > > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the
>> > > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>> > >  *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 10:09 PM
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India After
>> Gandhi- Bengal
>> > > democracy
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >We can start with a definition of the word
>> 'foreign' looking at a
>> > > dictionary
>> > >
>> > > Why look into a dictionary? I think most of us
>> know what "foreign" and
>> > > what "native" means? The dictionary is not going
>> to tell me anything
>> > > different.
>> > >
>> > > >and see if we can call 'English' a foreign
>> language or a
>> > > native language.
>> > >
>> > > You were the one who claimed it is a "foreign
>> language". So, before we
>> > > put this into a plebicite of sorts, I wanted to
>> know why you call it
>> > > "foreign".
>> > > I said it is not a foreign language in India,
>> and I gave netters a few
>> > > reasons. There are many more. I hope you will
>> provide us some reasons why
>> > > you claim it is foreign.
>> > >
>> > > Once you are able to do that, we can go from
>> there.:)
>> > >
>> > > --Ram
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >  We can start with a definition of the word
>> 'foreign' looking at a
>> > > > dictionary and see if we can call 'English' a
>> foreign language or a
>> > > > native language.
>> > > > Next we can take the opinions of the general
>> Indian public in India
>> > > > whether general Indians think English language
>> is foreign or not..
>> > > > Those will be my two starting points.
>> > > > What do you say?
>> > > > Barua
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> > > > *To:* A Mailing list for people interested in
>> Assam from around the
>> > > > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>> > > >  *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2007 7:55 PM
>> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Book review : India
>> After Gandhi- Bengal
>> > > > democracy
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Barua,
>> > > >
>> > > > I will let Alpana put forth her own defenses
>> :), and just to make it
>> > > > clear this is not a husband-wife tag team ::)
>> > > >
>> > > > >Ram's weak defense as English not being a
>> foregn language also falls
>> > > > >pathetically into the same catagory.
>> > > >
>> > > > Why do you think my defense is weak and can
>> you cite a few reasons why
>> > > > English is foreign, and we will go from there.
>> > > >
>> > > > --Ram
>> > > >
>> > > > On 9/28/07, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>> <barua25 at hotmail.com > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >  A/
>> > > > > What you are trying to say is this:
>> > > > > "Although what you are saying seems to be
>> true, but I am not going
>> > > > > to acknowledge it as truth, because if I
>> remember you said somthing in the
>> > > > > past in some other context which I did not
>> like. As such without checking
>> > > > > your past words, I cannot acknowledge it as
>> truth although it may be
>> > > > > a truth."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > In Indian culture we have been taught to
>> stand up for the truth
>> > > > > irrespective of the speaker. You aeem to be
>> doing just the opposite.
>> > > > > It does not matter what I said in the past
>> in some other context.
>> > > > > A truth must acknolwedged as a truth.
>> > > > > Otherwise we will be always walking on quick
>> sands.
>> > > > > Ram's weak defense as English not being a
>> foregn language also falls
>> > > > > pathetically into the same catagory.
>> > > > > Barua
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > *From:* Alpana B. Sarangapani
>> <absarangapani at hotmail.com>
>> 
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> 
> 
> 
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