[Assam] Bangladeshi Herket-Ul Jehadi bomb 75 in western India
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Sun May 18 18:41:17 IST 2008
>Calling a spade a spade does not make me a Muslim hater or a Hindu fanatic.
***** We are changing the subject.
Far be it for me than to prevent anyone from calling a spade a spade
, or a 'kwr' or a 'khonti' or even a shovel.
My responses were entirely on the recommendations made for 'solving'
the problem of terrorist activities by supposed illegal Muslim
immigrants from neighboring countries, about how western nations
prevent them, about why they don't happen in the western countries
and other such disjointed commentary.
If the aim of the discourse was to air one's own views of Muslims --
then why all the extraneous material? Just go ahead and say whatever
you wish. It is an uncensored forum.
But if you HAVE solutions or are looking for them thru a discourse
among thoughtful people, then you should be prepared to be examined
on your concept of the 'spade' and how that might deliver you from
the 'evil' you are concerned about.
> >But if they continue with their acts of terrorism in the name of their
>religion, then there is something wrong.
**** Indeed, there is. Have you examined WHY they might be resorting
to the tactics they do?
If I ask you about your concept of why they do that, will you share
that with us?
> >It is creating a problem for those of their faith who like us just want to
lead a normal live.
**** Why do you think they want your normal lives disrupted? What
might their motives be?
> >That is what is happening in Aus too. Because of the
>actions of a few Lebanese crooks and an attention seeking imam, people are
>questioning whether followers of their religion can assimilate with
>any other culture.-----
**** Developed and mature societies have means for dealing with
crooks and lawbreakers. That is what they used against Dr, Haneef and
ALL THOSE others who are LANGUISHING in prison. Except that the
former turned out to be wrong, and we don't know if the latter are
rightly languishing or wrongly--YET!
> >One Sat, they gather in the beach in thousands and beat up any
middle eastern looking people -------
**** When it comes to that, does that help Australian security or
hinders it? What is YOUR assessment of that?
If you were to be in charge what would YOU have done? Or as a
thoughtful, educated and involved citizen, what would you recommend
should be done?
>Why does this happen everywhere? Is it wrong to question?
**** Obviously you have thought about it. So why don't you tell us,
so that we can connect your diagnoses with your prescriptions to
weigh if they are sound ?
>Is it ok to wage a war against "kafirs" and non-believers of their faith?
**** Once again, why don't you tell us? And how that relates to
Kashmir or Godhra or the Jaipur bombings ?
At 7:49 PM +0800 5/18/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>Calling a spade a spade does not make me a Muslim hater or a Hindu fanatic.
>I am neither.
>But if they continue with their acts of terrorism in the name of their
>religion, then there is something wrong. It is better to question that,
>rather than deny the problem. And that has to be addressed by the educated
>in their faith.
>It is creating a problem for those of their faith who like us just want to
>lead a normal live. If they chose to ignore, then all of their community
>members get tagged. That is what is happening in Aus too. Because of the
>actions of a few Lebanese crooks and an attention seeking imam, people are
>questioning whether followers of their religion can assimilate with any
>other culture. It's best to say that relations between the Christian Aussies
>and muslims are not very friendly. There was a big racial riot in Sydney not
>too long too ago ( The sequence of events being: Lebanese youths taunt and
>pass remarks against white Aus women going to the beach in their beachwear,
>they gang up and beat up an Aussie life saver; Aussies have enough of the
>nonsense. One Sat, they gather in the beach in thousands and beat up any
>middle eastern looking people )
>
>Why does this happen everywhere? Is it wrong to question? Is it ok to wage a
>war against "kafirs" and non-believers of their faith?
>If their religion is supreme why isn't the muslim world the shining beacon
>of
>
>JS
>
>
>On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi J:
>>
>>
>> At 8:14 PM +0800 5/17/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>> >Hi C'da
>> >I was thinking that since you have rubbished my ideas, you might have
>> better
>> >ones. So I gave you options to make your task easier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **** One does NOT have to have better ideas to be able to scrutinize
>> those that are being offered.
>> Should society's able people sit idly by just because they don't have
>> a better solution to NOT oppose what is patently bad ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > >Yeah better living conditions and equality did not stop the 911
>> attacks,
>> >Madrid bombings, the London underground bombings. You fail to understand
>> >that these fundamentalist never adopt the country that have given them
>> >refuge from their warn torn homeland. It is only recently that the western
>> > >countries are coming to face with what India has been facing
>> forgenerations.
>>
>>
>>
>> **** My response was to the question below:
>>
>> > > >Do you know why western nations( US, UK, Canada, Australia and
>> likewise )
>> > >are relatively safe... That's because they take terrorism seriously.
>>
>>
>> Can the assertion made in the question -- and the comment above "Yeah
>> better living conditions and equality did not stop the 911 attacks"
>> stand in the same context?
>>
>> What they point to is a flawed, confused thought process, an
>> inability to analyze things critically. Question would be why?
>>
>>
>>
>> > >As for Dr Hanneef case it wasn't an entirely failed operation. As a
>> fallout
>> >of the efforts, it was found that some jihadi elements were planning to
>> >strike Melbourne during a AFL final game. All have been arrested and are
>> now
>> languishing behind bars. This is what I meant by proactive actions.
> >
>>
>> **** So was Dr. Haneef. He too languished behind bars and was already
>> punished, even though he was not guilty of anything. Just because
>> some others were too arrested and are "--languishing behind bars"
>> proves NOTHING . What if they too are found to be not guilty? Then
>> what? Would that advance Australia's security or would it further
>> damage it?
>>
>>
>> I dwell on the point for a very simple but critically important
>> reason: When governments PUNISH people ( as by arresting and
>> holding without trial for years on end) even when not guilty--or
>> disproportionately to the crime committed, it does NOT advance
>> society's safety--it merely worsens it. Assam is a terrific lesson
>> in point. As is Kashmir. And all acrooss the length and breadth of
>> the South Asian sub-continent.
>>
>>
>> At the root of this phenomenon lies a dysfunctional state. The
>> INSTITUTIONS OF STATE that are entrusted with it, must be thoroughly
>> reformed, re-tooled and made functional to provide DETERRENCE to
>> wrong-doers while protecting the well-being of society.
>>
>> But Indians have no concept of it, by and large, because generations
>> of Indians have not seen any worthwhile example of it. And when they
>> see it , often they cannot comprehend it. A good example is of
>> The Kashmiri JNU prof--I forget the name, whose faulty death sentence
>> was overturned by the Indian SC, unleashing a floodgate of anger and
>> protests from the blood-thirsty lot, who assumed the man was guilty,
>> just because he is a Kashmiri Muslim.
>>
>> Here lies the the need for EDUCATING the nation on what constitutes
>> democracy and democratic values. Such education does not come
>> imprinted on the genes. It has to be taught, the values inculcated.
>> That MINORITIES, be it numerical or be it coded--as in Muslims, are
>> NOT automatically , guilty, or are terrorists, as you imply in these
>> posts. It points to your own hang-ups and prejudices and yours or
>> other Hindu jealots' outbursts do not make your people any safer. It
> > merely makes matters worse. For everybody.
>>
>>
>>
>> > > So, will it change? Yes, it can, if people put pressure on the
>> >Govt. People can topple governments if they don't act.
>>
>>
>> **** They keep doing it almost every four ( or is it five?) years in
>> India. But show me WHAT has changed. I ask, because I want you to
>> think. And if you do, instead of mouthing off your prejudices and
>> fears every time, you just might find some USEFUL answers. But if
>> you don't, no problem. There are others who have. We learn from each
>> other. Pay attention and learn to open your mind. It will do you
>> good.
>>
>> Best.
>>
>> cm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >**** Really? Well, I learn something everyday! Until now, I thought
>> >it was because these societies do not have the conditions and the
>> >social conflicts that have given rise to the kind of violence India
>> >is reaping, and because their conflict resolution apparatus of
>> >governance are functional, by and large.
>> >
>> >Yeah better living conditions and equality did not stop the 911 attacks,
>> >Madrid bombings, the London underground bombings. You fail to understand
>> >that these fundamentalist never adopt the country that have given them
>> >refuge from their warn torn homeland. It is only recently that the western
>> >countries are coming to face with what India has been facing for
>> >generations.
>> >
>> >
>> >**** So why DOES India sit back and do NOTHING ? What seems to be the
>> >problem?
>> >Corruption and power hungry politicians who do no think beyond retaining
>> >their seats. For seeking power they would even settle the illegals in the
>> >homeland and seek votes from them. Assam being a prime example.
>> >
>> >As for Dr Hanneef case it wasn't an entirely failed operation. As a
>> fallout
>> >of the efforts, it was found that some jihadi elements were planning to
>> >strike Melbourne during a AFL final game. All have been arrested and are
>> now
>> >languishing behind bars. This is what I meant by proactive actions. They
>> did
>> >not wait for a stadium to be bombed and then look for clues.
>> >
>> >Mr Mahanta ..if your house is attacked by pests, you would probably clean
> > up
>> >the house and then put a pest barrier(insecticides, etc ) around your
>> house.
>> >That would not rid your house of pests but it will stop them from entering
>> >your house, won't it? India is surrounded by two hostile neighbours who
>> >obviously can't match India. If you are sure that these rogue elements
>> are
>> >coming from across the border, and the other country is not doing anything
>> >to prevent these groups from attacking India, do you have too many other
>> >options?
>> >
>> >Why India hasn't done so? The word is minority appeasement. I think you
>> can
>> >pretty much guess whom the term "minority" means in India. I leave that
>> for
>> >you to guess. So, will it change? Yes, it can, if people put pressure on
>> the
>> >Govt. People can topple governments if they don't act.
>> >
>> >
>> >JS
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> At 9:36 PM +0800 5/16/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>> >> >Ok... my ideas and suggestions are bad, do you have better ones:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** I was not the one who made those recommendations .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Are you suggesting that
>> >> >a) India do nothing
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Is that something I said or implied?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >b) Continue allowing more illegals into the country so that they can
>> cause
>> >> >more trouble.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Did I suggest any such thing?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I merely asked questions about the recommendations made. The
>> >> answers speak for themselves.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> > > >Do you know why western nations( US, UK, Canada, Australia and
>> likewise )
>> > > >are relatively safe... That's because they take terrorism seriously.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Really? Well, I learn something everyday! Until now, I thought
>> > > it was because these societies do not have the conditions and the
>> >> social conflicts that have given rise to the kind of violence India
> > >> is reaping, and because their conflict resolution apparatus of
>> >> governance are functional, by and large.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Do you
>> >> >think any of these country will sit back if a city was hit with 7
>> bombs?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** So why DOES India sit back and do NOTHING ? What seems to be the
>> >> problem?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >They do not go for minority appeasement and deal with terrorists and
>> >> >terrorism with a strong hand.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Should I read here that 'minorities' and 'terrorists' are
>> >> synonymous, or is it just this 'damned English language' problem
>> >> again ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Remember the Dr Haneef case in Aus. The Aus
>> >> >agencies did not wait for a terrorist activity to happen in it's soil
>> >> first
>> >> >and then react. They took preemptive actions, although in this regard
>> it
>> >> >turned out to be wrong.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Tsk! What a bummer!! One powerful example, except it turned out
>> >> to be grossly faulty. Didn't the Australian Supreme Court order the
>> > > govt. to allow Dr. Haneef to return or some such thing?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> That brings up the question again: Should India emulate what does not
>> work?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >As for not doing anything, the results are there to see: bomb blasts
>> one
>> >> >after the other.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Once again I ask: WHY does India do NOTHING? What seems to be
>> >> the problem? Is it because of a fear that Big Brother might not
>> >> approve of ? What?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Demographic change across villages and towns . These
>> >> >illegals then become prime candidates for jehadis. Assam becoming the
>> >> worst
>> >> >sufferer.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** I didn't realize that Assam is the worst victim of 'Jehadi
>> >> bombing'. What did I miss? Where did that happen in recent times?
>> >> And were the 'illegals' the perpetrators? And if they were, who
>> >> proved it so, and what happened to the perpetrators?
>> >>
>> >> I am dying to learn. Seriously!
> > >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Mahatma Gandhi's principle of offering the other cheek also when
>> slapped
>> >> on
>> >> >the other are long gone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Thanks for educating me. I am not very well informed on these
>> >> nuances of recent history.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >If you get hit, you have to hit back with twice the
>> >> >force.
>> >> >JS
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **** Thanks again for sharing the wise notion.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Not so sincerely yours,
>> >>
>> >> cm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> At 7:50 PM +0800 5/15/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>> >> >> >Yes...catch the culprits!!
>> >> >> >If found to be handiwork of Indians, I don't see a point of
>> wasting
>> >> space
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> >jails.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *** Words of the wise!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Question is WHO will do the CATCHING and dispensing of the implied
>> >> >> SUMMARY justice?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Time to bring the Indian Army, experienced in delivering such
>> >> >> justice, back from Assam, Manipur, Nagaland, Kashmir and
>> unleashing
>> >> >> in Rajasthan, Mumbai, Dilli and UP perhaps ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >If found to be handiwork of "foreign" power, warn the countries
>> >> involved
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >hand over terrorists or groups involved within a timeframe.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> **** That would be NEW?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And they would be TERRIFIED by desi-warnings? I can almost hear
>> >> >> Pakistani knees rattling!!
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >If not met,
>> >> >> >launch military strikes inside their terrorist camps( be it POK or
>> >> >> >Bangladesh or elsewhere ).
>> >> > >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> **** Assuming THAT is the answer, what has been holding India back?
>> >> >> And if India could not do it all these years, HOW will that change
> > >> >> tomorrow? Or WHY?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >If world condemns, issue statements like "it's a fight against
>> >> terrorism
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> >either you are with us or with the terrorists."
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> **** That is an astute advice no doubt. Only question is if it has
>> >> >> brought any results for those who used the argument?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When we copy something, should we not be competent enough to be
>> able
>> >> >> to copy something that BRINGS results, as opposed to copying dumb
>> > > >> ideas?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >After all US, Israel, Russia, China do the same.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ***Hmmm! Again the question is IF they are good examples of having
>> >> >> rid themselves of the scourge ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >India have to stop
>> >> >> >adopting a soft approach to terrorist attacks.
>> >> >> >plus
>> >> >> >send all illegal immigrants back to where they came from.
>> >> >> >JS
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> **** Somehow the words ring utterly hollow and devoid of ordinary
>> >> reason.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Chan Mahanta <
>> cmahanta at charter.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Any suggestions on how to solve the problem?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> At 9:01 PM +0800 5/14/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>> >> >> >> >Bombay, Hyderabad, Jaipur, ... the list will go on.
>> >> >> >> >Our spineless govt. has as usual blamed a "foreign" power.
>> Like
>> >> all
>> > > >> other
>> >> >> >> >cases earlier, this will be in the news for a few days and
>> will
>> >> soon
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >forgotten.
>> >> >> >> >We keep buying weapons, spending billions buying jets,
>> aircraft
> > >> >> carriers,
>> >> >> >> >testing missiles, ICBM's for what purpose?
>> >> >> >> >JS
>> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >assam mailing list
>> >> >> >> >assam at assamnet.org
>> >> >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >assam mailing list
>> >> >> >assam at assamnet.org
>> >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> assam mailing list
>> >> >> assam at assamnet.org
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>> >> >>
>> >> >_______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
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