[Assam] Big-lie; GC; H1B innovation? One-Horse US Univs; Loan Crisis Hits the MBA World
krish_gau at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 3 21:40:07 IST 2009
>>I will start with the big-lie thing you mentioned. Does make one go on the defensive - to the visa officer you said you are going to return to India after studies but you never went back!! How disgusting!! A Harvard grad telling a lie. Unbelievable!! An MIT grad telling lies . How offensive.!!
>>How offensive that 20,000 US studentsgrads lie every year while applying for H1B visas!!! How offensive that 500,000 H1B visa holders from India have lied and are in the line to get Green Cards - even though their non-immigrant visas (just like F1 student visas) were awarded on the understanding that the applicant would return to their country, whose passport they hold.
***** That precisely speaks of your lack of knowledge about Immigration matters. H1 (and L1) is a DUAL Intent visa you can have an immigrant intent. For H1, you neither need to say that you will return to India NOR do you need to show ties in India. In the DS-156 you need mention if someone has applied for a GC for you. If you are applying for H1 and mark yes in that, there is absolutely no problem . The same is not true about F1 and B1. Why don't you educate yourself either from Murthy site or from DOS site ? To help you, see these -- http://www.h1bvisalawyerblog.com/2008/07/dual_intent_what_does_it_mean.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H1B_visa (Even though the H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa, it is one of the few visa categories recognized as dual intent, meaning an H-1B holder can have legal immigration intent )
A 10 second google will give you more information on what a Dual Intent Visa is.
So your basic premises is false. And while a Harvard Grad need to lie a H1 holder from an Indian College which you loathe need not lie. Your argument falls flat there.
This also shows, even a Harvard Grad might not have some knowledge which a desi educated person may have :)
>>Krishnendu-da, I believe that you never came to the US on non-immigrant student or work visas - since you shame those who seek to remain here after their non-immigrant visas are over. I wont quote Jesus in seeking anyone who has never told a lie - unlike Raja Harishchandra - but I would say that telling a lie which does't hurt anyone is not sinful.
***** A lie is a lie whether it harms or not. There is no one who never told a lie but I merely pointed out that EVERY F1 who later aply for H1 starts their US journey with a lie. BTW, all my US trips have been on H1 and L1 visas ... those which are DUAL Intent.
>>The US F1 student visa form never asks anyone to state in writing or take an oath of honor that the applicant vows to return to their country or atleast get out of US once his/her education is over.
*** The law clearly says that F1 CANNOT have immigrant intent while H1 can have. Further to that, during your F1 application you need to show your ties in India. An H1 NEED NOT show those.
Did you take an oath that you will not illegaly work in US ? No. But if you go and work illegaly (i.e. without H1 authorization or EAD) is CIS going to spare you -- Oh you never vowed so the law is not applicable for you. Never expected such a hollow argument from you.
>>If a student visa applicant were to check a box that s/he agrees to leave US - then it would be perjury if s/he got a change of status to H1B and remained in the US. When you come to think of it - I never told a lie!! When my F1 student visa expired I left the US - stayed in Vancouver, Canada for a month with a Harvard classmate's family and got H1B stamping and came back to work. Was that a lie?
********* So did your employer apply for your H1 when you were in Canada or applied when you were still in US? Again, you have no clue on immigration matters. The visa stamping is just an entry document. Once you are in US, the status is what matters. If you apply for a COS (Change of Status) when filing H1, you can start working immediately upon receiving the approval. That includes a new I-94. Apparently, your employer or lawyer did not tell you that.
*** The restrictions restrict multiple H1 for same person by same
company. It does not restrict a candidate to pay 3 companies and get an
H1 filed by all 3 companies for this candidate. This chokes the system.
%%% Who allowed it? Not the Indian students in the US. Who made such rules?
***** The question is who (mis)uses these rules ? Can you vouch that the F1s never misuses these ? I see it other way all throughout forum postings.
This is from George Mason Univ - 3 miles from my house - it is Tier 3 - as per US News and World Report - whose rankings are respected and debated by all top Univs incl IVY League ones.
They have a professor who won a Nobel prize for economics in 2002. Another one won it in 1986. http://ices.gmu.edu/article.php/396.htmlNo Indian professor ever won a Nobel prize - so their research is not even Tier 3 level -incl those of IITs.
***** Good find. Now I understand your list of Tier 1 through 3. Going by this list, I can see there are roughly about 200 universities. The 20 K quota is more then sufficient to cater to foreign students from these 200 universities and you already got that. Secondly, the economics department of this school is ranked #1 in US south. So, while you can justify the quality of a Economics Grad, the same may not apply for other departments. Since a having a Nobel prize holder in the faculty is the criteria to decide if the School offers cutting edge research opportunity (the criteria has been set by you) , so other departments of this school are not up to mark.
Further, Dr Smith did his PhD from Harvard -- a tier 1 School and the work for which he has been awarded was apparently done before he joined Mason George.
Finally, people who do cutting edge research are perfect fit for O Visa. Why fight for H1 with those from third grade schools ?
%%% Thanks to this discussion I ave decided not to waste any more time and apply for Gren Card on EB 3 category thru my current employer. though it may take another 8 years to get it. Thanks for confirming that one doesn't have to remain in the US for green card processing - even a Oxford educated lawyer friend (from school days) did not recall that . But I confirmed from many people - it is true. Lawyers don't knwo everything!!!
******* Why EB3 ? A Harvard Masters surely deserves EB2 may be NIW ! An oxford educated lawyer may not know a thing of Immigration law if he/she does not practice immigration law. As I said in another place, skill is relative :)
But seriously, you can find all information on Immigration Law in the web ... the law and various explanations by lawyers are all available very easily.
%%% You agree that it is difficult for US grads to forge their edu degrees - but easier for non US degree holders - ground for preference to US grads!! seeking H1Bs
****** Hmmm... an absurd logic. What about the forged experience by US Grads. And what about the lie on immigration intent they started their journey in US with ? With this logic, F1's should never be granted H1 because they lied to a US Visa officer.
There are Visa Officers whose job is to detect such forgery.
%%% You are right. I chose to make that decision to secure a student loan to study. Just like many people I know chose to buy expensive cars on credit - American style!! However, you might agree with many that investment in one's education is the best one. I think that way. I think it is better to educate one's sons and daughters than to spend money on their dowry etc. I know many people in my family circle who spent $30,000 for their daughter's marriage. If someone marries his daughter to an IAS or IPS officer in Indian govt the dowry itself is Rs 1 crore ($200,000) and that is 5 yearold info .
****** Apart from student loan, you took money from your parents -- a luxury not many can afford. You also had the collateral not many have. And you have once again established with your info on dowry in your family circle that you do not belong to lower middle class.
And since YOU decided to be in US, pursuing your H1/Green Card dream, you gave up some luxury to get it. So why are you whining?
While investment in educatoin is surely the best, MANY (not all) of the F1s actually do not invest in education -- they invest towards getting a H1 and GC.
Coming back to where I started -- if a SELF PAID US educated from OneHorseTown has priority for H1, then H1 can just be auctioned .... that way most F1s will get it (since they can afford to pay) while those sitting in third world countrys will not be able to manage the money. Damn to skills and experience.
%%% I see your main grouse is against the IT professionals who lack the degrees in their field. Thats exactly my point.
**** Nope. My grouse is against ALL who try to exploite the H1 system and INCLUDE those F1s who pay $$$ to 3 or 4 shady bodyshopper to file H1, take a 7 day crash course in IT and forge his resume.
Logically, (and practically as we see from forums), people who have spend $$$ for education are the ones who has the financial ability to pay for H1 and sit on bench without pay.
That's why I specifically mentioned WHAT exactly you and other sharp minds from tier 1 and 2 US Universities should discuss. You do not seem to be interested in pursuing that .... why ? because it may hurt some of your fellow F1-H1 aspirants ?
>>>> All the more reason to give preference in H1B visa applications to those who have relevant US degrees - most IT people I know here are US grads with substantial coursework in IT .
**** So you should not get your H1 since you are not from IT . When are you cancelling it :) Do you mean to say that there are over 20K foreign US Masters holders in IT fighting for H1. That is too stretched.
>>Give preference to them , just like give preference to me for education jobs - over someone who is an IT expert with no degree in education.
**** Again, I have absolutely no problem when someone with skill and experience get H1 but it is all wrong when you say that a non IT US Grad should have preference over a non US IT Grad with (say) 5 years experience even though the job demands IT skills.
%%% You are right just a US degree is no guarantee of great expertise. But an IT master's grad from an accredited US univ is likely to be better than all Indian IT master's grads -as we discussed only a few Indian undergrad programs are world class - master's and PhD are not.
***** Not necessarily. For two reasons ... 1) you CANNOT discount the experience factor. In fact, in US you even find a BA with 20 years experience becoming an IT Director supervising a IT Grad. Who is more skilled ?? 2) Not ALL US Schools are equal.
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