[Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

Tue Aug 17 04:36:17 IST 2010

>** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?

What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9? Whats
the difference?

I don't know who Gupta is?

>I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?

Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!

>*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?

This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
illegally."

If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like the
ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.

>*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir. I
hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.

True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like Pakistan
export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.

Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in my
thinking?

__________________________

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
dhrubajyotideka at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
> have
> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> self-introspective,
> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
>
>
>
> *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
> simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
>
>
>
>
>
> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > numbers, and illegally.
>
>
>
> *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> terror
> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> snation
> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
>
>
>
> *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
> You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir. I
> hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
>

>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> > From: assamrs at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> >
> > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
> same
> > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> >
> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
> have
> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> self-introspective,
> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> >
> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > numbers, and illegally.
> >
> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> terror
> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> snation
> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > dhrubajyotideka at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
> same
> > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > >
> > > > From: cmahanta at gmail.com
> > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
> NYT
> > > >
> > > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy
> from
> > > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps,
> and
> > > then
> > > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every
> turn.
> > > >
> > > > **** Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major 'democratic'
> > > country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> > > > people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT
> seems
> > > to be
> > > > > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will
> not
> > > stop
> > > > > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper
> > > into
> > > > > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond
> > > Kashmir, and
> > > > > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those
> > > encroached
> > > > > areas.
> > > > >
> > > > > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever
> > > encroaching
> > > > > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without
> > > firing a
> > > > > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely
> changing
> > > world
> > > > > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is
> > > occupying
> > > > > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the
> world
> > > does
> > > > > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> > > > >
> > > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy
> from
> > > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps,
> and
> > > then
> > > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every
> turn.
> > > > >
> > > > > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown
> > > terror
> > > > > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships
> acknowledge,realize
> > > the
> > > > > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell
> these
> > > > > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Ram
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> > > > > Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> > > > > POLGREEN<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/lydia_polgreen/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life
> support
> > > with a
> > > > > bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student,
> was
> > > > > unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of
> rage.
> > > He
> > > > > had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a
> > > protest
> > > > > against India<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/india/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> > > >’s
> > > > > military presence in this disputed province.
> > > > >
> > > > > For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security
> forces
> > > in
> > > > > Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> > > > > Pakistan<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/pakistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> > > >,
> > > > > which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been
> largely
> > > > > vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they
> face
> > > a
> > > > > threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy:
> an
> > > > > intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence
> that
> > > > > includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters,
> mothers,
> > > > > uncles and grandparents.
> > > > >
> > > > > The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer, have
> led
> > > India
> > > > > to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory. Not
> just
> > > > > because of their ferocity and persistence, but because they signal
> the
> > > > > failure of decades of efforts to win the assent of Kashmiris using
> just
> > > > > about any tool available: money, elections and overwhelming force.
> > > > >
> > > > > “We need a complete revisit of what our policies in Kashmir have
> been,”
> > > said
> > > > > Amitabh Mattoo, a professor of strategic affairs at Jawaharlal
> Nehru
> > > > > University in New Delhi and a Kashmiri Hindu. “It is not about
> money —
> > > you
> > > > > have spent huge amounts of money. It is not about fair elections.
> It is
> > > > > about reaching out to a generation of Kashmiris who think India is
> a
> > > huge
> > > > > monster represented by bunkers and security forces.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, Kashmir’s demand for self-determination is sharper today
> than
> > > it has
> > > > > been at perhaps any other time in the region’s troubled history. It
> > > comes as
> > > > > — and in part because — diplomatic efforts remain frozen to resolve
> the
> > > > > dispute created more than 60 years ago with the partition of mostly
> > > Hindu
> > > > > India and Muslim Pakistan. Today each nation controls part of
> Kashmir,
> > > whose
> > > > > population is mostly Muslim.
> > > > >
> > > > > Secret negotiations in 2007, which came close to creating an
> autonomous
> > > > > region shared by the two countries, foundered as Pervez
> > > > > Musharraf<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/pervez_musharraf/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> > > >,
> > > > > then Pakistan’s president, lost his grip on power. The terrorist
> > > attacks in
> > > > > Mumbai, India’s financial capital, by Pakistani militants in 2008
> > > derailed
> > > > > any hope for further talks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not least, India has consistently rebuffed any attempt at outside
> > > mediation
> > > > > or diplomatic entreaties, including efforts by the United States.
> The
> > > > > intransigence has left Kashmiris empty-handed and American
> officials
> > > with
> > > > > little to offer Pakistan on its central preoccupation — India and
> > > Kashmir —
> > > > > as they struggle to encourage Pakistan’s help in cracking down on
> the
> > > > > Taliban<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/t/taliban/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> > > >and
> > > > > other militants in the country.
> > > > >
> > > > > With no apparent avenue to progress, many Kashmiris are despairing
> that
> > > > > their struggle is taking place in a vacuum, and they are taking
> matters
> > > into
> > > > > their own hands.
> > > > >
> > > > > “What we are seeing today is the complete rebound effect of 20
> years of
> > > > > oppression,” said Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, the chief cleric at
> Srinagar’s
> > > main
> > > > > mosque and a moderate separatist leader. Kashmiris, he said, are
> > > “angry,
> > > > > humiliated and willing to face death.”
> > > > >
> > > > > This summer there have been nearly 900 clashes between protesters
> and
> > > > > security forces, which have left more than 50 civilians dead, most
> of
> > > them
> > > > > from gunshot wounds. While more than 1,200 soldiers have been
> wounded
> > > by
> > > > > rock-throwing crowds, not one has been killed in the unrest,
> leading to
> > > > > questions about why Indian security forces are using deadly force
> > > against
> > > > > unarmed civilians — and why there is so little international
> outcry.
> > > > >
> > > > > “The world is silent when Kashmiris die in the streets,” said Altaf
> > > Ahmed, a
> > > > > 31-year-old schoolteacher.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, Prime Minister Manmohan
> > > > > Singh<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/manmohan_singh/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> > > >made
> > > > > an emotional appeal for peace.
> > > > >
> > > > > “I can feel the pain and understand the frustration that is
> bringing
> > > young
> > > > > people out into the streets of Kashmir,” the Indian prime minister
> said
> > > in a
> > > > > televised speech. “Many of them have seen nothing but violence and
> > > conflict
> > > > > in their lives and have been scarred by suffering.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, there is a palpable sense of opportunities squandered.
> Despite
> > > the
> > > > > protests of recent years, the Kashmir Valley had in the past few
> years
> > > been
> > > > > enjoying a season of peace.
> > > > >
> > > > > The insurgency of the 1990s has mostly dried up, and elections in
> 2008
> > > drew
> > > > > the highest percentage of voters in a generation. High expectations
> met
> > > the
> > > > > new chief minister, Omar Abdullah, a scion of Kashmir’s leading
> > > political
> > > > > family, whose fresh face seemed well suited to bringing better
> > > government
> > > > > and prosperity to Kashmir.
> > > > >
> > > > > But election promises, like repealing laws that largely shield
> security
> > > > > forces from scrutiny and demilitarizing the state, went
> unfulfilled.
> > > After
> > > > > two summers of protests on specific grievances, this summer’s
> unrest
> > > has
> > > > > taken on a new character, one more difficult to define and mollify.
> > > > >
> > > > > That anger has led to a cycle of violence that the Indian
> government
> > > seems
> > > > > powerless to stop. Events that unfolded last week in Pulwama, a
> small
> > > town
> > > > > 20 miles from Srinagar, illustrate how the violence feeds itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > It began on Monday, Aug. 2, when a young man, Mohammad Yacoub
> Bhatt,
> > > from a
> > > > > village near Pulwama was shot dead during a march to protest the
> > > earlier
> > > > > killings of other young protesters.
> > > > >
> > > > > Four days later, a procession set off to protest his death. Soon it
> > > swelled
> > > > > into the thousands. The police blocked the road and refused to let
> the
> > > > > marchers pass, worried that the crowd would burn down government
> > > buildings,
> > > > > as previous crowds had.
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened next is disputed. Protesters claimed that when they
> tried
> > > to
> > > > > surge through a barricade, the police opened fire.
> > > > >
> > > > > “We did not think they would open fire,” said Malik Shahid, 17, who
> had
> > > > > joined the march. “There was no violence. It was a peaceful
> protest.”
> > > > >
> > > > > First the police fired in the air, witnesses said, then into the
> > > scattering
> > > > > crowd. A bullet felled Mr. Shahid’s uncle, Shabir Ahmed Malik, a
> > > 24-year-old
> > > > > driver, and killed him on the spot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Shahid, a 12th grader who hopes to become an engineer, said the
> > > latest
> > > > > violence was evidence to him that remaining part of India was
> > > impossible.
> > > > >
> > > > > “If India took steps against those who kill us, maybe the people of
> > > Kashmir
> > > > > would be willing,” he said. “But when there is no justice how can
> we
> > > remain
> > > > > with India? They are not doing anything but killing. So we will
> just go
> > > for
> > > > > freedom.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Commandant Prabhakar Tripathy, spokesman for the Central Reserve
> Police
> > > > > Force, the main paramilitary force trying to keep order in Kashmir,
> > > declined
> > > > > to comment on the episode but said that the protests were not as
> > > spontaneous
> > > > > as they appeared.
> > > > >
> > > > > “Militants are just mingling with the crowd, firing bullets from
> the
> > > crowd,”
> > > > > Mr. Tripathy said. “Now they are trying to raise this confrontation
> > > between
> > > > > the public and the security forces.”
> > > > >
> > > > > “We are charging them with tear gas, rubber pellets, firing in the
> air,
> > > > > nothing works here,” he said. “When a crowd of thousands attacks
> the
> > > camp,
> > > > > what can you do?”
> > > > >
> > > > > Indian officials have tried to portray Kashmir’s stone-throwing
> youths
> > > as
> > > > > illiterate pawns of jihadist forces across the Pakistan border and
> have
> > > > > suggested that economic development and jobs are the key to getting
> > > young
> > > > > people off the streets.
> > > > >
> > > > > But many of the stone throwers are hardly illiterate. They organize
> on
> > > > > Facebook<
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/facebook_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> > > >,
> > > > > creating groups with names like “Im a Kashmiri Stone
> > > > > Pelter<http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=296940413371>.”
> > > > > One young man who regularly joins protests and goes by the nom de
> > > guerre
> > > > > Khalid Khan has an M.B.A. and a well-paying job.
> > > > >
> > > > > “Stone pelting is a form of resistance to their acts of repression
> in
> > > the
> > > > > face of peaceful protest,” he said in an interview. “I would call
> it
> > > > > self-defense. Stones do not kill. Their bullets kill.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Each death seems to feed the anger on the streets, creating new
> > > recruits for
> > > > > the revolt. Fida Nabi’s brother, Aabid, 21, watched over him as he
> > > drifted
> > > > > toward death this week, his head swathed in white bandages, his
> chest
> > > rising
> > > > > and falling to the ghostly rhythm of the ventilator.
> > > > >
> > > > > Aabid thought he had his life all mapped out — making more than
> $200 a
> > > month
> > > > > as a news photographer. But since his brother was shot his
> priorities
> > > have
> > > > > changed. “I used to cover the protests,” he said. “But now I will
> join
> > > > > them.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Hari Kumar contributed reporting.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > assam mailing list
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> > > >
> > > >
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