[Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

Tue Aug 17 05:09:17 IST 2010

>Wat kind of allowance u gave to BD based(yet) ULFA fellows? Sure it is not
about financial allowance. Did u gave them visa and passport? :)

Is that what you read? Is that what you understood? I tell ya, in C'da's
words - its the damn English language!

>Sorry sir, i am not eligible to educate u about terrorism and revolution,
till u sit abroad. Come to our villages. I will show u, no need to teach.

If you can't tell us the difference, having lived in Asom's villages, going
through all the hardships, who can? Just tell us a few things, we will try
to understand. Or do you think I'll have to go to Bebejia, Pokua, or Nalbari
or Namti to understand the full flavor of it all?

Oh well!

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
dhrubajyotideka at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Madhuri Gupta. U must be joking.
>
> R u serious with your tell about Yasin Malik? 15 yrs before he was
> terrorist with his JKLF, to GOI. But not now, as he left weapons and came to
> democratic movement. Is he terrorist or what?
>
> Sorry sir, i am not eligible to educate u about terrorism and revolution,
> till u sit abroad. Come to our villages. I will show u, no need to teach.
>
> Wat kind of allowance u gave to BD based(yet) ULFA fellows? Sure it is not
> about financial allowance. Did u gave them visa and passport? :)
>
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:06:17 -0500
> > From: assamrs at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> >
> > >** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?
> >
> > What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9?
> Whats
> > the difference?
> >
> > I don't know who Gupta is?
> >
> > >I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> >
> > Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!
> >
> > >*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> >
> > This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
> > illegally."
> >
> > If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like
> the
> > ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.
> >
> > >*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing
> everywhere.
> > You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir.
> I
> > hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> >
> > True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like
> Pakistan
> > export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.
> >
> > Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
> > us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in
> my
> > thinking?
> >
> > __________________________
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > dhrubajyotideka at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time,
> they
> > > have
> > > > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> > > self-introspective,
> > > > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate
> the
> > > > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
> > > simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal
> Bangladeshis
> > > > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > > > numbers, and illegally.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> > > terror
> > > > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> > > snation
> > > > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing
> everywhere.
> > > You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir.
> I
> > > hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> > > > From: assamrs at gmail.com
> > > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
> NYT
> > > >
> > > > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then
> the
> > > same
> > > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time,
> they
> > > have
> > > > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> > > self-introspective,
> > > > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate
> the
> > > > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> > > >
> > > > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal
> Bangladeshis
> > > > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > > > numbers, and illegally.
> > > >
> > > > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> > > terror
> > > > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> > > snation
> > > > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > > > dhrubajyotideka at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then
> the
> > > same
> > > > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: cmahanta at gmail.com
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > > > > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir
> -
> > > NYT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an
> enemy
> > > from
> > > > > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get
> arms
> > > > > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as
> camps,
> > > and
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at
> every
> > > turn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **** Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major
> 'democratic'
> > > > > country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> > > > > > people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something
> ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the
> NYT
> > > seems
> > > > > to be
> > > > > > > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem
> will
> > > not
> > > > > stop
> > > > > > > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and
> deeper
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond
> > > > > Kashmir, and
> > > > > > > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in
> those
> > > > > encroached
> > > > > > > areas.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile,
> ever
> > > > > encroaching
> > > > > > > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam
> without
> > > > > firing a
> > > > > > > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely
> > > changing
> > > > > world
> > > > > > > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is
> > > > > occupying
> > > > > > > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and
> the
> > > world
> > > > > does
> > > > > > > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an
> enemy
> > > from
> > > > > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get
> arms
> > > > > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as
> camps,
> > > and
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at
> every
> > > turn.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home
> grown
> > > > > terror
> > > > > > > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships
> > > acknowledge,realize
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell
> > > these
> > > > > > > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --Ram
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> > > > > > > Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> > > > > > > POLGREEN<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/lydia_polgreen/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life
> > > support
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > > bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school
> student,
> > > was
> > > > > > > unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer
> of
> > > rage.
> > > > > He
> > > > > > > had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said,
> during a
> > > > > protest
> > > > > > > against India<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/india/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> > > > > >’s
> > > > > > > military presence in this disputed province.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security
> > > forces
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> > > > > > > Pakistan<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/pakistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > > which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been
> > > largely
> > > > > > > vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today
> they
> > > face
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest
> democracy:
> > > an
> > > > > > > intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military
> presence
> > > that
> > > > > > > includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters,
> > > mothers,
> > > > > > > uncles and grandparents.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer,
> have
> > > led
> > > > > India
> > > > > > > to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory.
> Not
> > > just
> > > > > > > because of their ferocity and persistence, but because they
> signal
> > > the
> > > > > > > failure of decades of efforts to win the assent of Kashmiris
> using
> > > just
> > > > > > > about any tool available: money, elections and overwhelming
> force.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “We need a complete revisit of what our policies in Kashmir
> have
> > > been,”
> > > > > said
> > > > > > > Amitabh Mattoo, a professor of strategic affairs at Jawaharlal
> > > Nehru
> > > > > > > University in New Delhi and a Kashmiri Hindu. “It is not about
> > > money —
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > have spent huge amounts of money. It is not about fair
> elections.
> > > It is
> > > > > > > about reaching out to a generation of Kashmiris who think India
> is
> > > a
> > > > > huge
> > > > > > > monster represented by bunkers and security forces.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Indeed, Kashmir’s demand for self-determination is sharper
> today
> > > than
> > > > > it has
> > > > > > > been at perhaps any other time in the region’s troubled
> history. It
> > > > > comes as
> > > > > > > — and in part because — diplomatic efforts remain frozen to
> resolve
> > > the
> > > > > > > dispute created more than 60 years ago with the partition of
> mostly
> > > > > Hindu
> > > > > > > India and Muslim Pakistan. Today each nation controls part of
> > > Kashmir,
> > > > > whose
> > > > > > > population is mostly Muslim.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Secret negotiations in 2007, which came close to creating an
> > > autonomous
> > > > > > > region shared by the two countries, foundered as Pervez
> > > > > > > Musharraf<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/pervez_musharraf/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > > then Pakistan’s president, lost his grip on power. The
> terrorist
> > > > > attacks in
> > > > > > > Mumbai, India’s financial capital, by Pakistani militants in
> 2008
> > > > > derailed
> > > > > > > any hope for further talks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not least, India has consistently rebuffed any attempt at
> outside
> > > > > mediation
> > > > > > > or diplomatic entreaties, including efforts by the United
> States.
> > > The
> > > > > > > intransigence has left Kashmiris empty-handed and American
> > > officials
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > little to offer Pakistan on its central preoccupation — India
> and
> > > > > Kashmir —
> > > > > > > as they struggle to encourage Pakistan’s help in cracking down
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > Taliban<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/t/taliban/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> > > > > >and
> > > > > > > other militants in the country.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With no apparent avenue to progress, many Kashmiris are
> despairing
> > > that
> > > > > > > their struggle is taking place in a vacuum, and they are taking
> > > matters
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > their own hands.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “What we are seeing today is the complete rebound effect of 20
> > > years of
> > > > > > > oppression,” said Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, the chief cleric at
> > > Srinagar’s
> > > > > main
> > > > > > > mosque and a moderate separatist leader. Kashmiris, he said,
> are
> > > > > “angry,
> > > > > > > humiliated and willing to face death.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This summer there have been nearly 900 clashes between
> protesters
> > > and
> > > > > > > security forces, which have left more than 50 civilians dead,
> most
> > > of
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > from gunshot wounds. While more than 1,200 soldiers have been
> > > wounded
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > rock-throwing crowds, not one has been killed in the unrest,
> > > leading to
> > > > > > > questions about why Indian security forces are using deadly
> force
> > > > > against
> > > > > > > unarmed civilians — and why there is so little international
> > > outcry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “The world is silent when Kashmiris die in the streets,” said
> Altaf
> > > > > Ahmed, a
> > > > > > > 31-year-old schoolteacher.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, Prime Minister Manmohan
> > > > > > > Singh<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/manmohan_singh/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> > > > > >made
> > > > > > > an emotional appeal for peace.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “I can feel the pain and understand the frustration that is
> > > bringing
> > > > > young
> > > > > > > people out into the streets of Kashmir,” the Indian prime
> minister
> > > said
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > televised speech. “Many of them have seen nothing but violence
> and
> > > > > conflict
> > > > > > > in their lives and have been scarred by suffering.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Indeed, there is a palpable sense of opportunities squandered.
> > > Despite
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > protests of recent years, the Kashmir Valley had in the past
> few
> > > years
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > enjoying a season of peace.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The insurgency of the 1990s has mostly dried up, and elections
> in
> > > 2008
> > > > > drew
> > > > > > > the highest percentage of voters in a generation. High
> expectations
> > > met
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > new chief minister, Omar Abdullah, a scion of Kashmir’s leading
> > > > > political
> > > > > > > family, whose fresh face seemed well suited to bringing better
> > > > > government
> > > > > > > and prosperity to Kashmir.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But election promises, like repealing laws that largely shield
> > > security
> > > > > > > forces from scrutiny and demilitarizing the state, went
> > > unfulfilled.
> > > > > After
> > > > > > > two summers of protests on specific grievances, this summer’s
> > > unrest
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > taken on a new character, one more difficult to define and
> mollify.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That anger has led to a cycle of violence that the Indian
> > > government
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > powerless to stop. Events that unfolded last week in Pulwama, a
> > > small
> > > > > town
> > > > > > > 20 miles from Srinagar, illustrate how the violence feeds
> itself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It began on Monday, Aug. 2, when a young man, Mohammad Yacoub
> > > Bhatt,
> > > > > from a
> > > > > > > village near Pulwama was shot dead during a march to protest
> the
> > > > > earlier
> > > > > > > killings of other young protesters.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Four days later, a procession set off to protest his death.
> Soon it
> > > > > swelled
> > > > > > > into the thousands. The police blocked the road and refused to
> let
> > > the
> > > > > > > marchers pass, worried that the crowd would burn down
> government
> > > > > buildings,
> > > > > > > as previous crowds had.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What happened next is disputed. Protesters claimed that when
> they
> > > tried
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > surge through a barricade, the police opened fire.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “We did not think they would open fire,” said Malik Shahid, 17,
> who
> > > had
> > > > > > > joined the march. “There was no violence. It was a peaceful
> > > protest.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First the police fired in the air, witnesses said, then into
> the
> > > > > scattering
> > > > > > > crowd. A bullet felled Mr. Shahid’s uncle, Shabir Ahmed Malik,
> a
> > > > > 24-year-old
> > > > > > > driver, and killed him on the spot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Shahid, a 12th grader who hopes to become an engineer, said
> the
> > > > > latest
> > > > > > > violence was evidence to him that remaining part of India was
> > > > > impossible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “If India took steps against those who kill us, maybe the
> people of
> > > > > Kashmir
> > > > > > > would be willing,” he said. “But when there is no justice how
> can
> > > we
> > > > > remain
> > > > > > > with India? They are not doing anything but killing. So we will
> > > just go
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > freedom.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Commandant Prabhakar Tripathy, spokesman for the Central
> Reserve
> > > Police
> > > > > > > Force, the main paramilitary force trying to keep order in
> Kashmir,
> > > > > declined
> > > > > > > to comment on the episode but said that the protests were not
> as
> > > > > spontaneous
> > > > > > > as they appeared.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “Militants are just mingling with the crowd, firing bullets
> from
> > > the
> > > > > crowd,”
> > > > > > > Mr. Tripathy said. “Now they are trying to raise this
> confrontation
> > > > > between
> > > > > > > the public and the security forces.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “We are charging them with tear gas, rubber pellets, firing in
> the
> > > air,
> > > > > > > nothing works here,” he said. “When a crowd of thousands
> attacks
> > > the
> > > > > camp,
> > > > > > > what can you do?”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Indian officials have tried to portray Kashmir’s stone-throwing
> > > youths
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > illiterate pawns of jihadist forces across the Pakistan border
> and
> > > have
> > > > > > > suggested that economic development and jobs are the key to
> getting
> > > > > young
> > > > > > > people off the streets.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But many of the stone throwers are hardly illiterate. They
> organize
> > > on
> > > > > > > Facebook<
> > > > >
> > >
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/facebook_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > > creating groups with names like “Im a Kashmiri Stone
> > > > > > > Pelter<http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=296940413371>.”
> > > > > > > One young man who regularly joins protests and goes by the nom
> de
> > > > > guerre
> > > > > > > Khalid Khan has an M.B.A. and a well-paying job.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “Stone pelting is a form of resistance to their acts of
> repression
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > face of peaceful protest,” he said in an interview. “I would
> call
> > > it
> > > > > > > self-defense. Stones do not kill. Their bullets kill.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Each death seems to feed the anger on the streets, creating new
> > > > > recruits for
> > > > > > > the revolt. Fida Nabi’s brother, Aabid, 21, watched over him as
> he
> > > > > drifted
> > > > > > > toward death this week, his head swathed in white bandages, his
> > > chest
> > > > > rising
> > > > > > > and falling to the ghostly rhythm of the ventilator.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aabid thought he had his life all mapped out — making more than
> > > $200 a
> > > > > month
> > > > > > > as a news photographer. But since his brother was shot his
> > > priorities
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > changed. “I used to cover the protests,” he said. “But now I
> will
> > > join
> > > > > > > them.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hari Kumar contributed reporting.
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > assam mailing list
> > > > > > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > assam mailing list
> > > > > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > assam mailing list
> > > > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > assam mailing list
> > > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>