[Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story

Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com
Fri Aug 20 09:33:35 IST 2010 

>There we have a CM who openly says that there are no
> 
> aliens in Assam.That says a lot.


**** That CM is a duly ELECTED one according to the  standards of desi-demokrasy. Are you suggesting he does NOT represent the voice of Assam?

And are you also suggesting that the Kongress Party is an independent entity, that answers to its constituents, the people of Assam alone? 


>I was referring to you and not the population.

**** I am a THIRD party, observing and analyzing. I don't have a stake in Assam. I left long, long ago. It is quite immaterial to Assam what MY views , OPINIONS, might be.  But what cannot  be discounted, diluted or otherwise made less important by MY personal views or opinions is the FACT ofd WHO is responsible for border protection, immigration control and such. 

So, to use my persona to evade my question, to obfuscate, IS a classic example of argumentum ad hominem. And I rest my case :-).








On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 PM, kamal deka wrote:

> I was referring to you and not the population.The people of Assam are
> well-cognizant about that.I disagree because they are illegals.As
> simple as that.There we have a CM who openly says that there are no
> aliens in Assam.That says a lot.
> KJD
> 
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-).
>> 
>> 
>>> HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE
>>> EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO
>>> RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE
>>> INDEED.
>> 
>> 
>> **** You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I understood earlier that only
>> certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you suggesting the "population" at large
>> does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible and who have the resources
>> have not taken it seriously or done anything about it?
>> 
>> Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to hold responsible. It is a charade
>> being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies.
>> 
>> 
>>> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL
>>> BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!!
>> 
>> 
>> **** In some ways some of them have become that.  Do you disagree? And if you do, why?
>> 
>>> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI?
>> 
>> **** Far be it for me than to blame Delhi.  What do I know about who the responsibility lies with.
>> I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that SACRED constitution to
>> provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication and deportation of illegals
>> and so forth?
>> 
>> You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that the "population" of Assam does not care.
>> 
>> On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon"  from way back in the 80's and what it was all
>> about?
>> 
>> 
>>> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you are referring to?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:56 PM, kamal deka wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end<<<
>>> 
>>> I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE
>>> HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE
>>> EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO
>>> RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE
>>> INDEED.
>>> 
>>> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL
>>> BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!!
>>> 
>>> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA
>>> REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED
>>> 
>>> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER.
>>> 
>>> KJD
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> First,two wrongs don't make a right.
>>>> 
>>>> **** It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the apathetic people'  of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-).
>>>> 
>>>> Question would be  why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer instead of resorting to subterfuges?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch
>>>>> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so
>>>>> that the thugs could have field day.
>>>> 
>>>> **** It couldn't be farther from the truth.  Ram's premise was that the 'population' is 'accepting  of it'
>>>>  and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India.
>>>> 
>>>> If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show us WHAT your keepers and
>>>> mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been doing all these years
>>>> with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur?
>>>> 
>>>> And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to take issue with it?
>>>> 
>>>> **** So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right or any such thing, even remotely?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders?<<<
>>>>> Two things again:
>>>>> First,two wrongs don't make a right.
>>>>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch
>>>>> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so
>>>>> that the thugs could have field day.
>>>>> KJD
>>>>> 
>>>>> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you
>>>>> premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here?
>>>>> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take
>>>>> issue with it, other than your personal
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> The central theme is such cases is
>>>>>>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it
>>>>>>> needs to be separate from India.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> **** That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about.  What is India?  How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka.
>>>>>> All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There are NO rules that govern it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Or are there?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> n many a case I suspect, the aim is
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them
>>>>>>> best.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ****Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices?
>>>>>> Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their interest, their motives?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally
>>>>>>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing
>>>>>>> the entire political landscape of these regions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> **** TWO points to note here:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here?
>>>>>> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal
>>>>>> preferences or, more precisely, prejudices?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> **** finally, I think Sanjiv  Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and conclusions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Very well put KJD.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for
>>>>>>> Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is
>>>>>>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it
>>>>>>> needs to be separate from India.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally
>>>>>>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing
>>>>>>> the entire political landscape of these regions.  Now, suddenly these same
>>>>>>> folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is
>>>>>>> required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to
>>>>>>> erase borders and think of the world with no borders.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between
>>>>>>> these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is
>>>>>>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them
>>>>>>> best.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be
>>>>>>> discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --Ram
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> When did this
>>>>>>>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of
>>>>>>>> those Mahabharat times <<<
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of
>>>>>>>> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same
>>>>>>>> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then
>>>>>>>> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put,
>>>>>>>> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the
>>>>>>>> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form.
>>>>>>>> KJD
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur
>>>>>>>> <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as
>>>>>>>> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person
>>>>>>>> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and
>>>>>>>> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to
>>>>>>>> understand. Please read on:-
>>>>>>>>> "Hi All,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Reading ...... after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped
>>>>>>>> up here
>>>>>>>>> and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> like to clarify for ......... sake that my question of who is an Assamese
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants
>>>>>>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>> (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of
>>>>>>>> us are
>>>>>>>>> and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors.
>>>>>>>> But we
>>>>>>>>> have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because
>>>>>>>> someone, not
>>>>>>>>> too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is
>>>>>>>> confusing, but
>>>>>>>>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the
>>>>>>>> days of
>>>>>>>>> Mahabharat.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat
>>>>>>>> times ?
>>>>>>>>> Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now
>>>>>>>> classed
>>>>>>>>> as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis,
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> .............. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them
>>>>>>>> as Assamese,
>>>>>>>>> but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so
>>>>>>>> that even
>>>>>>>>> the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu
>>>>>>>> people of
>>>>>>>>> upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later
>>>>>>>>> converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no
>>>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>>>> referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya
>>>>>>>> Musalman.
>>>>>>>>> Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody
>>>>>>>>> immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali
>>>>>>>> Hindu is
>>>>>>>>> another example.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to
>>>>>>>> get away
>>>>>>>>> from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no
>>>>>>>> wonder,
>>>>>>>>> that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others
>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>> leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are
>>>>>>>> shunned. And
>>>>>>>>> this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as
>>>>>>>> immigrants,
>>>>>>>>> many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the
>>>>>>>> Governor
>>>>>>>>> hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full
>>>>>>>> report).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of
>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>> and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral
>>>>>>>>> politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's theory
>>>>>>>> of Clash
>>>>>>>>> of Civilization. Why for example is Assam, the only state in India to be
>>>>>>>>> subdivided so many times ? Why is Assam the only state in India where our
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> "boys" are killing our own people ? And why is Assam, in spite of being a
>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>>> state, the only one which still wants more division, not only of the
>>>>>>>> tribal
>>>>>>>>> areas or the much feared greater Bangladesh, but of the such demands as
>>>>>>>> Upor
>>>>>>>>> Axom and Namoni Axom ?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Most importantly, ........., you seems to be confused of what constitutes
>>>>>>>> as an
>>>>>>>>> Assamese, as you said it is what one feels deep down...that is a
>>>>>>>> subjective
>>>>>>>>> decision. Are you an Assamese, I ask ?Trace your family history and you
>>>>>>>> may find
>>>>>>>>> startling truths. Just because the British drew a line across Goalpara in
>>>>>>>> 1947,
>>>>>>>>> cutting the Koch areas in half, does not necessarily make the residents
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> other side as Bengalis, I think.
>>>>>>>> ............../.......................... and others
>>>>>>>>> from that belt, may even have some close relatives in West Bengal today..
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> were they Assamese till 15th August 1947 and became Bengalis after that
>>>>>>>> !!! huh
>>>>>>>>> !!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The issue is too large and complex. But we, the people of Assam, need to
>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>> ourselves some basic question, and not go about opening lungis of other
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> and getting a ........................ pleasure of seeing the
>>>>>>>> ..................... of a so called
>>>>>>>>> immigrant. After all, we referred to some at one time as "lengta Noga"
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> realising that we have always been quite naked ourselves .....
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would agree with ............ (for a change) that we have survived
>>>>>>>> since the time of
>>>>>>>>> Mahabharat, survived greater onslaughts of Mughals and Maan and a few
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> from Bangladesh cannot overrun us.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> More on the "great" saviour Gopinath Bordoloi later ...!!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sanjiv Goswami
>>>>>>>>> (............)
>>>>>>>>> P.S. It became too long but I could write a thesis on this topic."
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> assam mailing list
>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> assam mailing list
>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

More information about the assam mailing list